Purpose of this blog

Dmitry Yudo aka Overlord, jack of all trades
David Lister aka Listy, Freelancer and Volunteer

Sunday, September 6, 2015

Paper Work

This week we’ll be doing two parts to the article. The first bit is history, the rest is World of tanks related. Also on Friday I put up a Name that tank picture. Answer at the bottom of the page.

First I wanted to share with you something thats missing from the historical record. the 15mm BESA is often given a pretty bad penetration number, which is somewhat unfair. Luckily I found some documents where the British did pretty extensive testing on the 15mm BESA. So here it is:

The Key:
  • Ammunition used: 15mm MK1-z
  • C immunity: the mean of the lowest Velocity to give a cracked bulge and that of the next lowest round which did not give a Cracked bulge
  • C/D: 50% of the rounds not to give a Cracked bulge
  • Ballistic Limits (BL): 50% of the rounds not to give bulges cracked so badly as to admit daylight.
  • W/R: Approximately 50% of the rounds estimated to be clean gun wins

So its likely the penetration figures give elsewhere are for 100% guaranteed penetration of the entire bullet. Which brings us onto the subject of what counts as a penetration? Well each nation measures a “penetration” on their testing differently, which makes comparing data difficult. Anyway, now to talk about WOT.

Last week in a Q&A Storm mentioned myself and British tanks. I'd love to set things right here as those Q&A entries were a bit off, and a case of mistaken identity.

First off the mistaken identity part. As it's easiest to clear this one up, and I don't like taking someone else's credit. One of the Q&A answers says this:

"- Storm later learns that it was Listy who measured the Chieftain and Conqueror for Wargaming and backs off a bit, it's possible the "Super Conqueror" will go somewhere else instead"

Well I've never ever measured a tank for Wargaming. I've taken some photographs of an airplane for Gaijin, but that's about as far as it goes. The people who could fit the description are to my knowledge: Xlucine, Ed Francis (Oh and go donate to his tank project!) or our very own Rita. My work has been entirely paper based and sifting documents.

Next we come onto the main meat of this article. This entry in the Q&A:

"- there were no other tier 10 British HT candidates than the Chieftain (a player was promoting Listy's "Super Conqueror" with improved armor, this was not considered: "Unfortunately, there's not a single word about armor, only the words of this guy (Listy) without any proof unless I am misreading it") "
I was going to make a comment about how I'd defer to Storm's superior experience in the days he's spent in the UK, visiting various archives. However I quickly realised that's not entirely fair. As by the sounds of it someone presented the wrong information. So here are the high points.

One tank often called the "Super Conqueror" is this thing:

The tank in the above picture was used for static target for shooting at with different projectiles. It was never suggested to be fielded as a combat tank.
However there are elements on the above that would have seen action against the Soviet tank horde crossing the inner German border. The part I'm referring to is the 14mm burster plates on the hull. These armour plates were manufactured and held at depots ready to be issued in case of war. They weren't issued all the time, because, as the Germans found out in the Second World war with the skirts on their tanks, spaced armour like that gets damaged easily. This would cost money, something the British Army has never had enough of.
 Other upgrades to the Conqueror was a proposed improved ballistic shape turret which I did discover in an archive. Storm asks about the armour values, so here they are:
 The original article also had the armour values in it I might add. Here is the turret drawing:
I've long been suggesting that the current top Conqueror turret becomes the stock turret, and this turret becomes the new elite one. As it solves the unpleasant situation where you have the Caernarvon to grind out a second time, only a tier higher.

There was one other modification to the Conqueror, one that I'm not so sure would fit in game, as I still believe the Conqueror to be properly balanced, (the gun handles far too well and can depress too far) with the earlier modifications would make a solid tier nine tank. The first few L11 120mm guns were fitted to Conquerors for testing.
So here’s what I would suggest for a Conqueror in game at the moment.
  • Reduce depression from 7.5 to its historical value of 5.5 degrees.
  • Severely nerf the dispersion bloom while moving. Watch any video of a Conqueror driving and you’ll see its gun barrel bounce around all over the place.
  • Add 14mm spaced armour to front hull (as per the photograph above)
  • Make current elite turret the stock turret
  • Add new elite turret in the shape of the improved ballistic turret.
So, Storm? How about it? Do you want a historically accurate tier 9 Conqueror, that is a heavy tank, and not a medium that scoffed all the pies? That is comfortable to drive, and not the same tank as the tier before with a new name and worse match maker until you’ve ground out the top turret and gun. Come talk to me! I can give you all the sources and references you need, my Facebook page with a contact Email is here.

Finally, the what is it quiz. Well it was a Vickers light tank as most of you guessed. In 1933 they produced a commercial tank that could be modified and sold around the world. Its had various names such as the MKIIIB "Dutchman" when a small batch destined for Holland was handed over to the British after the German invasion. However I think this particular version was the India Pattern one.

Edit: It's been pointed out I may have dropped a clanger on the Tank ID. The Upper hull structure looks more like a MKIII than the tank I picked. It came from a file about the one I pointed out, so I'll have to go back and check it when I'm next in the area.