Purpose of this blog

Dmitry Yudo aka Overlord, jack of all trades
David Lister aka Listy, Freelancer and Volunteer

Thursday, October 31, 2013

[WoT] Krupp's Archives

Taken from Yuri Pasholok's (WG historical consultant and tank researcher) blog.

"There has always been some complaining of "compromises" related to historical accuracy of German vehicles. Surprisingly, real German WWII research and engineering exceeds the boldest expectations.

For instance, Krupp's archives have the following inventory:

2959 15 cm K, Entwurfe, Berechnungen enthalt:
15 cm K L/40 fur [PzkpfW "Maus"]
15 cm KWK in Tiger II
7,5 cm KWK und 15 cm KWK L/38 fur Pzkpfw "Maus"
15 cm K L/38Patronen fur Pzkpfw "Maus" 

And that's not all, however we are excited already." 



36 comments:

  1. Wow, now that's something VERY interesting, especially the Tiger II cannon.
    BTW Overlord, as ex-supertester and historian, is there any way I could help you guys?

    If you want a sample of my research check zxhistory at blogspot.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Can you give the direct link to smth relevant?

      Delete
    2. Wasn't sure about your policy on links...
      Here's a proposal for a more accurate alternative to Waffentrager E-100:
      http://zxhistory.blogspot.it/2013/10/germanys-ultimate-motorized-cannon.html

      Delete
    3. No policy for regular links as long as it is not spam/ad.

      Will check it out, ty.

      Delete
    4. You're welcome, please say hi to Cannoneer from a VK 72.01 skeptic if you have a chance :)

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    5. Yuri says that he has seen it and it wouldn't work for us because of the suspension - heavy tank required.

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    6. Err, with all due respect that would invalidate your tier IX choice as well.
      There is a way overburdened a Panzer IV with the very same gun he says would be too heavy for the Panther.
      Also, Panther was due to be experimented with the same suspensions as the E-series, meaning heavy tank-like suspensions.

      Delete
    7. Somewhat agree. Unfortunately there are more important issues in this area to deal with.

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    8. Also is to mention is, that on most Panther WT the turret-ring is further/bigger. How come? Because the hull above the tracks doesnt slop in-side.... better to see here:

      http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/288687-brauche-hilfe-beim-dt-forschungsbaum/

      or here:

      http://s14.directupload.net/images/130828/o4gywnuq.jpg

      Which means the hull can handle easier a bigger gun.

      So I agree with Zarax, that his argument is invalid, more over if we talk about a possible "elite-setup"; where in game +90% are fantasy works (and I dont talk about the 100% WG fantasy tanks like: FT AC etc...).

      So, I dont think the german tanks should be holyer then holy in this respect. So a Tier IX WT Panther and and even a Tier X WT Panther could be possible (as we could add everything as upgrade version).

      P.S. This remembers me on SerBs BS about the back sprocket of the E50M... which then got falsify by Drehstab.... as he had shown that it work.... http://forum.worldoftanks.ru/index.php?/topic/412816-e-50-ausf-m/page__st__780__pid__10682720#entry10682720

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    9. Not to be disrespectful Overlord, but of this is one case of choosing tanks that will make your life harder later on when itt comes to balancing.
      Auflakerer Panther is another example, not to mention both heavy lines.

      This in the long run forces you to either redesign lines, replace tanks or abuse soft stats to keep them afloat, often in ways that are quite unrealistic.
      You have my greatest respect on the Russian tree development but I honestly think you could use a different perspective on the German one.

      I've got ready research for the Porsche tank destroyer tree and solutions for your issues with the higher tier German light tanks, using information from respected authors and not having to resort to post-war tanks.

      Me and Yuri may not agree on designs but patching historical holes is something that I can do without having to resort to the "rule of cool" :)

      Delete
    10. Tech trees are a kind of compromise between game design team and historical consultants. Sometimes the balance between the two is improper (which can be a fault of either side). Usually this leads to tech tree overhaul.

      For now, according to Yuri, no help is required with research. If you find anything curious though, feel free to poke me. :)

      Delete
    11. As you're having issues with the spahpanzer kette prototype data I could fix that for you guys.
      I've crossed info between Doyle and Hahn, resulting in a proposal for a 33 ton recon tank.

      If you're interested I could share my research with you, would allow you guys to avoid using a post war design to finish the tree.

      Delete
    12. Zarax,

      that's interesting. Contact me via forum PM system (EU forum, I assume?). Thanks in advance.

      Delete
    13. Zarax999 at EU forum, will contact you tonight (GMT+1) with more information.

      Delete
    14. Message sent.
      Subject: Argus 33 ton recon tank.

      The hull is already in game so it would be cheaper to remodel than the Kette, hope it will be useful for you guys :)

      Delete
  2. Overlord, you might consider TO POST THAT DATA.
    :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And I will when Yuri comes up with smth :)

      Delete
  3. hmmm...a Tiger II and Maus with 15 cm's..

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    Replies
    1. Well, Maus 15cm was already known as proposal, Tiger II is new AFAIK although I suspect it might be a Jagdtiger proposal.

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    2. That sounds more likely. Even with the 88 there is not loads of room for more gun. Plus a casement design would better handle the recoil then the turret and allow for more room to handle the gun.

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  4. Well, 15cm Tiger II would re-write decades of H.Doyle's research, so I hope Mr.Pasholok can back this claim up.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My educated guess is a Sturmpanzer variant.
      Something like that was already tested for Panther and Ferdinand (and we shouldn't forget the mighty Sturmtiger) so it's not that surprising on Tiger II chassis.

      Delete
    2. That would be very interesting, but I STILL hope he can back it up with original documents.

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    3. Well we could make an hack job of a Strumpanzer by getting a GW Tiger with its 21cm gun, killing the chamber volume and barrel length, and use the weight saved to slap on some frontal armor...

      You know you want it.

      17cm might be a better fit though...

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    4. 21cm Morser 18/19(t) Auf Panther, you know you want it.

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    5. I am working on its article (GW Tiger) and its interesting.

      Been looking for photos of the French mortar that was mentioned in the article for the GW Panther and I think I ran across one in a book but now I need to go back and look.

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    6. it's the 220mm mle 1916 IIRC, pretty short stuff and was planned as optional gun for the Ferdinand.

      Delete
    7. google images have some photos of it it seems.

      There was also a 220mm Polish mortar captured in WW2 (14 of them)
      220mm Type 32. labled in Germany as "22cm Morser 32 (p) poln. wz 32" It has a much longer barrel then the French 1916 22cm Mortar. The polish one seems to be about 1.5-2x the barrel length of the French one.

      The Polish one.
      http://i.imgur.com/PSAMgOU.png

      Also just found my photo of the French 22cm.
      http://i.imgur.com/bhY0D8q.png

      Caption for the French 22cm reads: 22cm Mortar 530 (b)-belg. TR 16 S is identical to the French 220mm Mortar TR mle. 1916 Schneider. Both were used by army and fortress artillery, and could fire 100.5-kilogram shells up to 10,800 meters.

      Image's from CapturedWeaponsAndEquipmentOfTheGermanWehrmacht1938-1945

      Delete
  5. And then of course there's the dual subturreted flamethrowers that the Maus engineers originally wanted to have attached to the back of their creation, which I previously mentioned to you! :D

    Frank Davis said at one point that the two flamethrowers were of the same sort used on the Flammpanzer III, which as far as I can find would make them Flammenwerfer 41. Combine it with the apparently 1,000 liter fuel tank that I believe was meant to feed those two flamethrowers, and I'm pretty sure us Maus drivers can say goodbye to sidehugging IS-7s! (And hello to a lot more fires, if the flamethrower fuel tank becomes a module....)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Germans made many flame tanks (production) and tested the idea on most of their tanks.

      The Char B1 with a flame thrower was an interesting idea...

      Delete
  6. Is there a chance that these new findings will be implemented into WoT sometimes in future, like a Tiger II with 15 cm KWK?

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    Replies
    1. I'd wait for more details, that gun might be for a TD or it might be Brummbar's 15cm STUH 43, a derp gun.

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    2. FrankyK,

      More reasearch is required.

      Delete
  7. Hi Overlord, has any further data surfaced on this?
    BTW Yuri is growing unreliable on german tank research, to the point of contradicting himself in some subjects plus openly fishing for flames on the subject in his blog is not exactly professional.

    This is in stark contrast with Cannoneer, who should receive public praise for his work in contact with the community and imho should be allowed more internal weight for non-russian historical research.

    ReplyDelete