Purpose of this blog

Dmitry Yudo aka Overlord, jack of all trades
David Lister aka Listy, Freelancer and Volunteer

Tuesday, March 12, 2013

[WoT] SPGs FTW!

Pondering over the recent balancing adjustments and the way we've screwed up SPGs so badly, I have come to the idea why not enable TD sniper more for SPGs.

Indeed, many of the SPGs in real life had optics that allowed to fire directly. And after the MM change with a semi-hard cap for SPGs TD mode has become even more difficult to use.

In the light of upcoming expansion of SPG lines up to tier 10, this might be a nice change making the game a little less arcadish (if you get what I mean :)). Imagine multiple SPGs driving here and there in TD mode.

So, what do you think?

254 comments:

  1. Doesn't sound like a bad idea, BUT that would be not OK at all on very small maps... as most of them are at this time. WoT really needs much larger maps, imo.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Larger maps - for larger teams. Yup, that'd be good.

      Delete
    2. And that we don't forget the range.
      I belive that an SPG can fire over more then 2Km. Don't you think?

      Delete
    3. Make that some 10 km at least... having maps at least 50% the size of those currently in War Thunder would be just EPIC!

      Delete
    4. 10x10km map means it would be 100 times bigger. There is no need for that. :)

      Delete
  2. Wasn't this one of the major pillars of WoT gameplay - no snipermode for arties?

    I think it's a bad idea, that would lead to arty intentionally snipercamping notorious chokepoints (the "corridor of death" in Himmelsdorf for example), giving players cheap kills (an arty would oneshot the first tank going down the corridor, while getting ripped to shreds by his friends) while depriving the team of arty support - each arty standing on one spot in snipermode aiming down the street is an arty not supporting the attack going on on the other side of the map. It would also encourage "lolguysImaTD" noobs, suicide play and all sorts of trolling.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't think it ever was.

      Check your inbox on forums.

      Delete
    2. Can't, I'm banned since afternoon :)

      Delete
    3. Hm, how do I contact you in private, then ? :))

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    5. Copied and removed for privacy reasons.

      Delete
    6. Im sensing someone is going to send his CV to WG soon.

      Good job SilentStalker.

      Delete
    7. Lol contrary to popular belief, I have a job :)

      Delete
    8. You can get a second one! :)

      Delete
  3. Horrible idea, SPGs are supposed to be useless in close combat. They're already ruining the game as is, letting them do the job of TDs even better than they already do would just be bad. BAD.

    They already have the advantage of being able to point and click anything across the map while playing one handed. Making their job at close range even easier just solidifies the role of SPGS as the noobiest class in WoT.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They would still be one-shot wonders. Hit and you're golden, well, at least if you manage to destroy your target, ... if he's alone.

      Delete
    2. I dont think arty is ruining the game at all, I have just recently started playing arty i have the priest. Arty is not as easy to play as people think. And I like that it adds another threat to my tank. If there is big arty in the battle I am always thinking am I safe here or would I be better off over there. I like it. IMo there is nothing wrong with the current arty in the game but adding this td mode is a mistake.

      Delete
    3. I think some nuance is in order here. Up until and including tier 8 I think arty is absolutely fine and usually doesn't appear in excess of 3 in a battle.

      HOWEVER, when you are playing at tier 9 and 10 you will notice the number of arty in a game goes up and games with 5 arty are far from being rare (as it should be). Result: none of the non-arty players want to move because when they get spotted they get pounded by multiple arty shots and because the splash/area effect range is significant with the higher tiers arty they almost always will do damage, meaning staying "arty safe" doesn't mean a lot anymore unless you are in a city map or behind a big rock and a lot of players simply don't move much from their hiding places until the enemy arty is significantly weakened or enemy tanks are pressing forwards.

      WG should really wonder WHY so many people play arty in Tier 9 and 10 games. That in itself says a lot allready.

      I expect arty going to tier 9 and 10 helping a lot later this year as some new pieces will be put in between existing arty vehicles meaning that in higher tier (8-10) battles you are more likely to get arty that is of the same tier as you are playing and and not tier 8 arty which is actually a tier 10 arty (after the rearranging later this year).

      Delete
    4. You need more XP to research higher tier Arty, you make less XP because you share XP with your spotters, therefore you need more games to get to the next tier, meaning more high tier arty in high tier games.

      Delete
  4. Basically I think you should remove SPGs from the game or seriously cap the amount of SPGs per battle.
    I know about your problem regarding matchmaking and the amount of SPGs that are in the queue waiting for a game to join.
    That shows the extent of the problem. You have to many people playing SPGs.
    You recent MM changes haven't brought a proper solution.

    SPGsare just annoying for most players in random battles and, for various reasons, add an enormous amount of randomness to the battles in terms of battle result. And they aren't really contributing anything to proper game flow, they just destroy it.

    One of which is that you have started to add direct firing SPGs to the game anyway, i.E. the Jagdpanzer E100 and just recently the FV215b 183 which, if it had a higher elevation angle, could blend in as a SPG perfectly.

    If you are now enabling proper direct firing for the already existing SPGs you are gonna blow the balance tank vs. SPG eben more than you already have done so far.

    Basically I think you are running into a loop of some sort. I have been playing WoT now for some time and witnessed some rather alarming changes in the past which support my theory.

    I could talk about that for quite a few hours straight now but most of that may not really be on topic here.

    But one of the key points of my theory is that you keep adding powerful vehicles to restore balance or to balance out some existing other powerful vehicles. Which is like presenting a cure for some kind of illness and that unfortunately establishes the base for some other kind of illness.

    Adding direct firing for SPGs would be a very questionable design decision of that sort.
    As soon as you have done that you will undoubtedly have to think about how you are going to balance this out.

    So, as far as I am concerned, you get a big NO! for that and should even take it to the next step and remove SPGs completely.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Removing a big part of the gameplay can hardly be an option. Full stop.

      Delete
    2. And you think I wouldn't have anticipated such an answer?
      Besides the fact that I don't agree to that in general I also didn't really put a focus on this issue. If I did I could just have posted "Doesn't matter, just remove the SPGs!". But I didn't.

      As I have said, from my point of view you get a No for direct firing SPGs.

      The question is: Why are you even thinking about adding this feature to the game? Just because it was possible in real life?
      To no extent would this make the game less arcadish. It would lead to another rise in SPG players, trolling around the battlefield which basically intensifies the problem we are already having.

      Delete
    3. I don't think that RL reasoning is anyhow vital here, though it's always better to have some logic behind any decision. It's fun and gameplay sake what I'm thinking about.

      Delete
    4. Posts like this one just shows how out of touch with the game WG is.. Arties are by far the easiest class to handle in the game, and has the biggest payof for success.. Still you waste your time looking for ways to improve a broken class even further...

      The current gameplay of arties is totally braindead and can be done to perfection with a finger up your nose. I don't see how anyone in charge of this game has played a game with 3 or more arties, and left the game in it's current state..

      If you're worried about losing paying costumers from longer artillery-ques, do a survey on how many players you've lost due to arties beeing in the game/artyparties!

      Delete
    5. Another idea popped up when reading the rows above. Why won't you give the JPZE100 an arty mode? Because it's an arty (well, not a td for sure), just with more armor.

      Delete
    6. Why throw around comments about broken classes and opinions stating it is a fact without giving sources or definitions on the subject?

      I'm answering the only decent ''question'' until now. :
      The Jagdpanzer E-100 does not have an arty mode because its gun elevation is designed for the Tank Destroyer Role, Proving your ''(well, not a td for sure)'' statement, incorrect.

      Delete
    7. Removing SPG is very bad, because SPG was made irl and WOT is based on RL tanks.

      Delete
    8. @Severinster,
      While I can see the side of the argument against a TD mode for arty, your statement that "The current gameplay of arties is totally braindead and can be done to perfection with a finger up your nose" is naive and perfect example of the close minded players that troll the game. You are probably the same guy that whines when arty doesnt support you - but why would you need them to if they are worthless? Playing artillery well is not an easy task, and for you to suggest otherwise makes you the brain dead one. Obviously I play artillery, but before you troll further, I have 8 t10 TANKS as well, so I am not a 1 trick pony.
      I think many of our arty woes will be addressed once WG goes to a full 10 tier scale, making arty caps more managable.
      As to your question posed OL; I think many of the are correct here, that there would be some noobs trying to play as if they were in fact TDs and that would indeed hurt the gameplay. Though, personally, I would like such a capability for those fateful moments when I am left alone against a would be attacker. In other words, it would not be the primary mode I chose personally. In the end WG would have to make some tough decisions about how this would affect balancing and game play, but if tester properly, I'm in.

      Delete
    9. @piledriveryatyas,
      I outshine you in every single arty we both have played, and that is with one of my fingers firmly tucked away in my nose at all time..
      Maybe if you didn't have BOTH hands busy picking your nose you would not find playing a arty to be that hard....

      You're part of the biggest problem WG has when it comes to listening to player feedback.. Clueless people with very limited abilities that think they have something constructive to say about a game in desperate need of some changes.

      Delete
    10. Yes.. you got me. I didn't have an open mind like you. And yes, I am the problem. WG and its remaining player base will surely miss you when you quit playing out of frustration. The fact that you took the time to search my stats and compare them speaks volumes about your focus; statistical whoring over quality gaming. I will not hijack OL's blog and turn this into a pissing contest, there's no need. Clearly, you have the answers.

      Delete
    11. Yes, I'm such a statwhore just driving the op tanks of their tiers...!
      Facepalm..

      Maybe you also should do some research before uttering statements and you might not come of as a total failure when you enter discussions.

      Talking to the likes of you just always confirms why you end up with the results you do..

      Delete
    12. But THAT is what it meant to play Hightiers! SKILL! But a M12 causing 1800 damage on an IS-4? Ridicolous!
      Except the french branch, I have all Tier 8 artis - but do I play them anymore? Nope, since a year arti is destroying hightier-battles and I will not support that anymore! WG should focus this problem NOW - and arti doesnt need any skill to be played, as DunklerRabe already mentioned.

      Every hightier-match with no arti (what is that rare) is praised and welcome in the gamechat, awaiting nice matches and fights - instead of sitting behind rocks until the match is over! And what is normally in hightier-matches? 8-10 Artis waiting for you to bomb you away!

      The decission to cap arti on 5 each side is also ridicolous - just make a cut and bring a usefull cap!

      Another point is the damage of arti. It should be impossible for arti to penetrate tanks. As my example above, a penetrating arti is just extreme-trolling game-mechanics!

      Delete
    13. @piledriveryatyas "Playing artillery well is not an easy task, and for you to suggest otherwise makes you the brain dead one."

      Oh sorry man but you are so wrong. Only class in which I have successes being under influence of alcohol (literally - after minimum three beers) is Arty. In every single other class which I'm playing drunk my behaviour and statistics falls rapidly down but only when I'm siting in arty I could just improve my statistics. My arty skills are limited only to shooting standing targets and I have better stats than in counterpart vehicles (i.e. in Grille).

      Delete
  5. Removing overhead view from arty and replacing it with sniper view would:

    * Be great to play against arty. Removing overhead view significantly reduces the amount of places and times you can get utterly blasted. It makes strategies, attacks and advances more useful and powerful, which makes camping worse. Also, arty range would be reduced to the 500m square. All good things.

    * Be wretched to play as arty. Arty has such bad HP, armor, DPS and (generally) mobility that restricting them to LOS would destroy their effectiveness. Arty is strong when hidden by hills; arty is worthless otherwise. The one benefit is that counter-arty would go away almost entirely.

    If you re-envisioned arty as a second line, HE shell lobber, that could be fun. But you'd have to change almost all the characteristics of every arty to do so, and arty would then be entirely unrelated to historical artillery. Don't know if that matters to you.

    IMO, the better option is to have all arty fire multiple smaller HE shells per click. Make them excel at area attacks and prevent them from doing massive damage to one target (unless in close combat).

    Or you could half the damage of all HE and linearly scale damage from 0% to 100% instead of 0% to 50% and then jump to 100% when the shell pens. That alone would eliminate a LOT of complaints about artillery.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ínsane_Dork,

      that is also my opinion. Rework Arty so that it only supports and not does the damage for the team. As you said arty firing a bunch of shells with less damage would be much better.
      When you play Clanwars now, all other clases are reduced to block enemys and wait for the arty to do the job. In most battles my clan has our Arty is doing 80% of the damage on open maps, which is annoying when you play a heavy tank.

      If you change Arty that way Insane_Dork mentioned, i agree with a direct firing mode, otherwise NOPE, NEVER, NO, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS etc.

      For all Arty players: i don't want to ruin your class, really but the way it goes Arty is way too powerfull. It wasn't build for destroying tanks, it was only for fire support on soft targets, buildings and entranchments. Even Bunkers couldn't be destroyed, thats why they made heavy mortars for.

      Delete
    2. I totally agree with Insanes idea. That would fix so many frustrations this game offers.

      But WT will still bury this joke game to the ground where it belongs.

      Delete
  6. Can you enable indirect fire sights on TDs too, then? I want to kill people in my SU-152 across the map.

    ReplyDelete
  7. LOL snipermode for arty! Are the russian players really raging this hard?

    Didnt it take a rather long time until a big arty can do its first shot in real life!

    For me artys are still way to overpowerd, because they can still deal a massive amount of damage without having to risk their live! And because of the fact, that the arty should be a longrange support unit it should never get snipermode. Instead it should get a penalty, that it isnt able to shoot at an enemy which is nearer than 100 meters!

    ReplyDelete
  8. Very, VERY good. But there is still too much arty being played. Over the past days since the 8.4 patch is out, I havent been in a single match with less than 3 arty, most more. I dont mind if the arty gets buffed back to 8.2 stats, AND get the TD mode. Thats how it always should have been. However, the cap must be limited to 3 arty per team. (on lower tiers, more is fine, i guess, not much trouble there, but at arty-tiers 5 and up it gets ridiculous)

    ReplyDelete
  9. Arty just needs to be rebalanced so it plays it's intended role better. They are supposed to be "anti-camp weapons", but they only encourage camping the nearest rock so arty can't hit you.

    Solution: Increase the arc angle of artillery shots so that they can hit pretty much any target regardless of cover.(Think everything has a better arc than the su-26 currently has.)

    Compensate by decreasing shell speed so that the shot takes 3 times or more longer to land then it does now.

    The punishes campers and and rewards movement.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you decrease shell speed that much, you can only hit stationary targets. Players will figure that out and keep moving. Arty would then become worthless as everyone keeps moving. I don't think that's a good solution.

      Delete
    2. "If you decrease shell speed that much, you can only hit stationary targets."

      That's the entire point. Encourage people to move, kill camping.

      Artillery regularly hitting max speed batchats in the current situation is anything but ideal.

      Delete
    3. Don't get me wrong: I think the game would be better if people moved more often and camped less.

      But this would simply make arty useless. As I said, quickly everyone would determine that moving defeats arty and then arty would do no damage at all. I want to encourage movement but not at the expense of ubernerfing an entire class of vehicle.

      And arty is not regularly hitting full speed Bat Chats. I own one and I play arty. So I see both sides and that simply doesn't happen regularly. The only time that it is at all common is when the Bat Chat is charging arty in close combat, but that is expected. Now, if the Bat Chat is driving in a straight line or going in a predictable turn then yeah, but every tank is hittable when it's predictable. I don't see why the Bat Chat should be above that. Much more commonly I see Bat Chats stopping to fire off their clips and - while stopped - getting blitzed by arty. Far, FAR more common.

      Delete
    4. "So I see both sides"
      So do I. I've played through 3 lines of arty till the end, and have every medium tank bar the chinese.

      Arty is too effective against mobile targets, the only safe bet against arty is to hump a rock. The only hard to hit target is a t50-2 at max speed, and even then Splash radii are so large it hardly matters.

      Slow artillery rounds would still work. People are always going to get tempted to stay still for a while to stay behind a good hull down position or unleash an autoloader clip. There is no reason for Artillery to be effective against mobile armor in this game.

      Delete
    5. I'm open to slower shell speed if I also get higher firing angles. But 3x is too punishing, IMO. You want arty to dislodge campers, and so do I. I think that's the most intuitive, historically-based role for them. But 3x is enough that you could still easily miss them behind cover.

      I understand and in many ways support making arty less useful against moving targets, but I definitely think you're underestimating the impact on gameplay that'll have. If arty basically cannot hit a moving target at all, their target pool will shrink to almost nothing as people adjust.

      Delete
  10. Isn't it strange enough that SPG's can shoot while driving? Or that they can relocate second after shot, which is totally impossible IRL. I had already seen many times Hummels, GW Panthers or French SPG's chasing or flanking tanks in TD mode and shooting while moving all the time.

    Please, do not forget that SPG's are biggest fun spoilers in WoT (maybe with exception for lowskilled teammates). And that the way they work in the game is already full of fantasy. You can't drive and just shoot, when you want, from 203 mm howitzer. Preparation for shooting takes in such beasts many minutes. Leaving position too.

    So I could understand adding SPG's sniper mode only if they could shot only some time after stopping like it is in RL.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are correct but lets also not forget that IRL a vehicle that get's tracked takes SEVERAL minutes, and in bad cases, hours. So be careful about what you wish for in terms of "IRL timing".

      Delete
    2. Well, if SPG preparation for shooting time would be like in RL, then I can agree for real time tracks reperation. It is IMO very low price for eliminating SPG's from battles (cause RL preparation for shooting takes longer then battles in this game). ;)

      Delete
  11. Keep arty as distance damage dealers, Nerf their accuracy even further BUT increase their damage, increase splash radius but dont have the damage dealt linear from max damage to min damage it should diminish with the square of distance to impact.
    Direct hits from arty should be rare but when they do. Kill mediums of their teir and some heavies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't want to bring that huge gambling element into SPG's gameplay.

      Delete
    2. I'm with stone monkey here... SPG's should be a support tank, not a direct fire one. the difficulty in using them direct fire is preventing the french dominance from being overwhelming. Imagine some of the clip fed arty in direct fire...it would be arcadish, and lacking of any skill (save the patience to grind up to it)

      in short Anti direct fire, pro support role

      Delete
  12. The problem I have with giving Artillery sniper mode is Artillery already has the ability to shoot clean across the map, at least at higher tiers. Their "weakness" has been the difficulty they have in engaging in close quarters direct fire combat.

    Sure, even with sniper mode they are still going to be weak and generally one shot-able; but in having sniper mode, they would effectively be able to double a very soft skinned TD's who could provide indirect fire when needed.

    The real problem with SPG's, for both those playing it and those playing against it, is due to how much randomness is involved. That's not to say there isn't room for skill in SPG's, there is, quite a bit; however, with aim circles bigger than tanks, plus HE's randomness, etc... there's a lot more room for randomness than in most tanks.

    This randomness isn't fun for the person playing artillery and it's not fun for the person being hit by artillery, because again, it's a roll of the dice if they lose 2000, 200, or 20 HP.

    Now, I don't have a solution to this problem, and I'm honestly not sure there is one which will work 100%, all I can do I try to make the problem known so that maybe someone will think of a solution.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Good idea, arent in wot enough derptank rigth now. But i accept, if i can shoot ind arty mode my KV2.

    ReplyDelete
  14. This is a gimmick, not a fix. You're encouraging arty to get closer to the enemy when they don't have the HP to reliably take a single hit from anything close to their tier. If top tier arty had at least half the HP of TD's at their equivalent tier so they can survive, maybe, one shot from them I could see this working and being fun.

    The whole reason people are pissed off at WG is because, right now, when arty gets shot by anything it dies and suffers the highest repair bill in the game. Without fixing THAT problem arty will remain unplayable and my wallet will remain firmly sealed off to WG. I haven't played more than 3 matches since the arty nerf, but I have been following along, and nothing I've seen makes me want to come back.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh yeah, and the ammunition for my favorite arty, the t92, IS F&#%ING EXPENSIVE AS F^%K!!!! The E-types is almost as good and it's nearly half the price. F&^@ING FIX IT!!!

      Delete
    2. It's nice to have some nice arty player here.

      Delete
    3. Well, I still see too many "unplayable" SPG's in top tier battles.

      Delete
    4. The more frank the discussion is the better. Polite discussion is for when you're talking to bosses and shareholders, not the other way around. I'm an arty player. I started playing this game because arty was fun. It isn't anymore, and now I'm pissed off because I've sunk so much money into this game only to have my fun ruined by the people I'm paying.

      I expected you to at least keep artillery playable so if you have a premium account you can keep playing your top tier arty so long as you do decently. I can play my E-100 as much as I want, I'm good in it and I make money. I can keep playing my t110e3 as much as I want, I'm good in it and I make money. I can keep playing my AMX-50b as much as I want, I'm decent in it and I break even. I can't play my t110e5 as much as I want, It's too squishy and can't tackle anything well in a frontal engagement so I get blown up and lose money. I can barely play my t92 anymore at all, I'm good in it but every time my team lets anything get through I die and because of the wallet smashing repair bill I hemorrhage money.

      I barely post anything on the forums because nothing ever really pisses me off enough to say anything. The arty nerf was enough to get me on the forums. Take if from an arty player with over 3k arty battles under his belt, arty, as it is, is f&%#ed.

      Delete
    5. The common thinking, and I share it, that arty is still quite playable.

      Delete
    6. Not my T92, it's too expensive to be worth playing it at this point.

      Delete
  15. In general I think there's far too much QQ'ing about arty. I think the main problem is there is just way too much high alpha shells flying around in tier 10. Everyone camps because one bad move and you're popped for 1200+ damage.

    I would drop the alpha of high tier TD's ( although improve the accuracy and reload time ).

    As for arty I would cut the damage in half, keep the splash damage about the same, decrease the reload time, and increase the accuracy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Then what are you going to do about their low ammo hold and their expensive shells?

      Delete
  16. Cracking good idea!


    But what about indirect fire mode for tanks and TDs? A number of designs in-game historically had some provisions for this.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Why can't you give us the choice to opt-out arty? I am sure it won't break MM any further, because everyone loves SPGs, right? Why is WG so afraid of giving us this option?
    FFS Overlord, remove this crap from the game. Gamebreaking mechanics and arty parties are our reward for reaching tier X?
    You won't rebalance slow tanks. Won't give armor a purpose. Won't remove arty. Is there a reason to even have a tank like the Jpz-E100?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. - You won't rebalance slow tanks.
      Why? If they are meant to be slow.
      - Won't give armor a purpose.
      We will.
      - Won't remove arty.
      Absolutely not.
      - Is there a reason to even have a tank like the Jpz-E100?
      I believe so, even tho I'm not a fan of heavies.

      Delete
    2. They are also meant to have the lowest DPM? Lowest rate of fire? Worst soft stats? And on top of all that, ppl just have to load a few premium rounds to autopen them.

      If you believe there are reasons to have a Jpz-E100, please, share these reasons. Why don't you like heavy tanks? Because they are slow, their armor are useless, fast tanks outclass them in every possible way, and let's not forget the worst weakness: Arty magnet.
      Asking players about their tanks would be a good way to start rebalancing these tanks. Listening to the community about arty would also be a huge step forward. Stop being stubborn about this subject.
      There are too many players unhappy with the way arty is implemented. Screw them?

      Delete
    3. Asking players about balance is a bad thing, people are subjective and get biased.

      Delete
    4. Which doesn't mean players don't have any vote in balance matters, but their opinion is not decisive.

      Delete
    5. Not if you do it right. Not everyone is biased, and many ppl drive tanks from all nations.
      Jpz-E100 is biggest fail added to the game, and this opnion is shared even among ppl who doesn't own one, but fight against it in a daily basis. The tank is a lot worse than its predecessor. It is a unique fact in the game. Add to this the fact that arty punishes it even more than any other tank, and have a thing that is only good to collect dust in the garage. But of course WG won't do anything about it.
      And may I ask again why would not play this tank? Why do you believe it is ok?

      Delete
  18. @Overlord: not about SPGs
    Why are crew roles different between WZ-131/132 and Type 62? It is not good to have "premium training tank" that have commander/radio operator and "normal" tanks have radio operator on loader. When I choose commander in type 62 to learn some radio operator skills then they cant be used in WZs :( I thought that type 62 is a model of wz-131/132 so I just dont understand why they have to have different distribution of roles.

    ReplyDelete
  19. doesn't really matters anyways
    some SPGs cant depress their guns to shoot at close range, take T92 as example
    want to fire just like a TD? noting more simple, just zoom in in 3rd person mode and you have a similar experience

    but, does WoT really needs another extra feature for SPGs? didn't they already fucked up the gameplay that you (WG) had to limit their numbers / battle on top of nerfing the fuck out of them?

    want something to think about? remove satellite view (direct fire), add TD mode and indirect fire at distances beyond view range

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. As stated above : remove "satellite view", instead put a mark (2 times the size of an average tank ?) on the minimap to where the SPG is aiming at.
      In compensation of the less accurate knowledge of where you're shooting, make it from one shell to a salvo (3 shells ?).
      In order to know if what you're aiming at is behind a cover, put somewhere on the screen a frame with the view from a chosen friendly tank (and you could change from which tank it comes) as if they had cameras showing what's in front(not very "historically accurate", I know).
      For example, something like where you see your target (bottom left) in WoWP but with what's in front of the tank you're seeing the view from.
      The scouting and spotting part staying the same.
      Maybe it would require to decrease the cost of the shells ?
      In my opinion, it'dbe a good compromise between the "give only coordinates to arty" guys and the current system and (why not dreaming ? :)) get rid of all the "arty is overpowered" threads.

      About the TD sniper view for SPGs, I agree with Frank Davis first post.

      Anyway sorry for my english and I hope it'll give you some ideas.

      Delete
  20. At this point I will never play anything above T8 probably. WG botched arty and BUFFING It with a sniper mode is ludicrous and I have to hope you're trolling Overlord.

    Millardthemk

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have to agree that trolling was successful.

      Delete
    2. Whether or not a troll, useful debate. Though introduction of playable 'on map' artillery was maybe a mistake in game conception. The idea of 'Barrage' mode (posted by FD) but enabled by scouts highlighting a zone for artillery (needs work..) would promote more cooperative gameplay.

      Delete
    3. Maximilian von Finstereck,

      that wouldn't be enough for April 1

      Delete
  21. One issue I have with arty is the ridiculous mobility. At the end of the game, beaten up tanks can have real trouble against a few of the mobile arty. We have lost games to BatChat155 firing sideways on the move at 50 meters against a middle sized tank (IS7 I believe). GW Panther, Lorraines, etc can do the same. Even the "immobile" arty like a T92 can easily rotate within 2 seconds to smash your single medium tank rush. Arty is very very effective at CQB and also highly effective at the longest ranges in the game. It needs a mobility nerf -- perhaps not always, but at least when it "setup" to fire. Working out counterbattery is an issue...

    End of day, the one element of the game *not* working is arty, and it needs some sort of major change, in my view. I still support the game, I just renewed one year of premium. I think you can fix the issue if you try.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I fully agree with that comment.

      Delete
    2. I'm going to smash this comment with a simple question. What would you rather be fighting at the end of a game, 3 tier 8 arty, or 3 tier 10 td's at full health.

      Delete
    3. You haven't smashed anything. If the other team has 15 tanks and we have 12 tanks and three tier 8 arty, we will win on the vast majority of maps assuming equally skilled teams a large majority of the time. Artillery's benefit to your team goes way beyond its abilities as the last man on the team -- up to that point, it should have done 2k+ damage.

      Delete
    4. Good point, well made Coldt.

      Delete
    5. I love playing arty and also its mobility, but I also have to agree...
      I thought a long time about the satelite dish of the GW Tiger and its usage...

      The original Arty had to be fixed to the ground to shoot, so why not implementing this to the game... a time of 1-3 seconds to *fix the arty after the last movement before it can shoot.
      May be it could start aiming immidiatly, but not shoot...

      Delete
  22. The SPGs are just stupidly implemented : too arcade.
    The accuracy, the mobility, the aim mode everything it's wrong with them.
    Everything and anything : artilery has too low splash for an arty, sometimes are too mobile, sometimes the shoot too fast, sometimes they have incredibly stupid accuracy to 1k meters and so on.
    The game has evolved so much but the arty it's a remain from the past, from the not soo good old days.


    They should be overall :
    -less mobile
    -bigger splash
    -longer aim time
    -less acurate

    ReplyDelete
  23. T10 participation is at it's lowest point in the history of this game. This is the symptom of a problem. You know the problem is arty. If you don't you should all be fired. You're certainly not qualified to run the game if you can't see arty is THE ISSUE.

    So I'm fairly confident you'll allow an arty opt-out. It's the logical thing to do. The opt-out allows both groups to have what they want. It's the best solution. If you choose not to the price (which is already happening) is the loss of most of the top players. Your game will turn into a revolving door of players coming and going.

    The secondary effect of players not playing T10 is that they no longer need to spend gold. Not grinding T10's don't need free xp. Don't need premium as the lower tiers are profitable. In the end we don't need to buy gold... A pretty bad business model.

    So far you've paid lip service to the arty problem. Many of us are sick of it. Have been sick of it since beta. We've gone from happy customers to very disloyal ones. Now we are crossing into hostile. Once we become hostile your company can go pound sand. We will avoid your titles. We'll be finished with you. I think you seriously under-estimate how close you are to losing so many of us. If you did you'd be acting very differently....

    The clock is ticking...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Now if you actually want to fix the problem shell travel time is the answer. Add 3 seconds to the flight time when you enter satellite view. This makes hitting moving maneuvering target more challenging. Those stationary or moving predictably would, of course, get pummeled. Tanks require the ability to counter arty though good driving. They should have the ability through good play to lessen it''s ability to hit us.

      The concept is simple moving combined with good driving would be the counter. Giving tanks the ability to defend themselves. Restoring movement to the game.

      Delete
    2. ^ this

      in my total 14295 battles played, do you know how many had been with tier10 tanks (m+h)? 1127 !
      that's less than 8% of my total battle count
      I have more battles played with the Type59 - 1173, that's a single tank

      Delete
    3. Now there's an interesting idea: add shell travel time *only* in overhead view. I like it. It would make sense if it also added vertical angle, but that's secondary.

      The core problem is still the random 100% HE damage shots, though.

      Delete
    4. Those hits have everything to do with luck, no arty play can regularly make those shots and you'll rarely ever see more than 1 in a game. If you see one you shouldn't be calling to nerf arty, you should be congratulating the guy that made it because he finally fired a worthwhile shot, probably he only one of the week.

      Now, this idea of a longer travel time for shells, I can completely support a 100% increase in shell travel time so long as splash radius is increased by 50%, damage is increased by 20%, and the horrifying repair cost of arty is reduced to competitive levels.

      Delete
    5. Think through your comment. Yes, people would use that feature, but it doesn't make it right. While playing my heavy tanks I would like to disable SPGs, TDs, and medium tanks, and only really face up against lights or other heavies.

      While playing my tank destroyers, I'd love to disable SPGs and medium and light tanks.

      The balance between the types requries all of them in order to work. You get your variety through variety within maps, which limit the effectiveness of each tank type.

      Delete
    6. I stoppped playing with X tiers more then 6 months ago. Since then I played 2 battles on live server and in both cases I had arty party and no fun (both teams were hiding all the time, most kills and damage was made by spg, ine the last minutes there were almost only spg left in the battle).

      This month I started to sell my X tiers. So far one (T110E4), but 2 others only gather dust so I think about selling them too.

      Due to this situation I also stopped grinding tanks. I see no reason in going into high tiers. 4-8 are much more funny and SPG do not ruin fun there. With 20 different tanks and TD's from this tiers I have in garage I have no chance to get bored :) I do not need tier X in that game anymore.

      Delete
    7. The lack of endgame is crippling. With there being no new game modes - Encounter and Assault were decent ideas, but so half-baked in their execution that they don't count - a map rotation that insists on force-feeding you the same tiny set of maps over and over, and most maps being simply TOO SMALL for tier 10s, there's just no incentive to play tier 10.

      Add to that arty parties and the insanity of adding in premium ammo that makes armour worthless (what's the point of my Maus any more? I mean really, what's it supposed to do with armour that any tier 8 can shred, no mobility BECAUSE of that worthless armour and a gun that's very gimped at tier 10?),and you have a recipe for disaster. We need FAR MORE MAPS, far BIGGER maps, GENUINE new game modes with maps specifically designed for that game type and not some half-assed retcon of an existing map, the removal of bullshit gold/premium ammo altogether, and a 'no arty' selectable game option.

      Then you'll see tier 10s getting dusted off and played again.

      Delete
    8. There is need for more end-game stuff - no doubt about that.

      As for tier 10 recession, it's not that prominent on a larger scale, however some of your concerns are true indeed. E.g. population of tier 10 heavies has reduced quite a lot.

      Delete
    9. here's a thought
      since the MM spread has been reduced to 2 tiers why not cut down the repair costs for top tiers? or even disable the repair costs completely
      MechWarrior did it, what say you test it? just for the fun of it

      Delete
    10. I have to say I share this opinion. Why not make the repair cost for T10 tanks cheap enough to be able to make a small profit and actually have fun. Woryying about having to grind money again afterwards isn't fun nor rewarding. In understand the game needs the grindfactor, because it should make money, be it by buying a premium acc, converting free xp, or buying a premium tank. But when people reach T10 the grind is finished. Driving those tanks hasn't got any reason anymore, at least not in randoms. So the only reason to still take them out of the garage would be fun, but as I said, at the moment it isn't. Why not reward the players that got throgh the grindheavy tiers with a tank they can actually have fun again with?
      I think they pay/suffer enough to even get there. They shouldn't suffer any more when they finally reached their goal.

      Delete
    11. zMe ul,

      may be some credit income buff instead.

      Delete
    12. overlord, why a credit buff instead of a repaircost decrease? both lead to more profit or in case of tier 10s smaller losses

      Delete
    13. Because shots should count. Income buff would incentivize good performance better.

      Delete
  24. How about making driving end-of-the-line tanks (tier 10) more interesting by increasing the free xp gain from 5% to 20% in tier 10 tanks?
    At the moment it is neither fun (camping due to arty masses) nor rewarding (high repair, no use for xp).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They are used in CW, give it a try. You are missing the end game if you do not play CW.

      Delete
    2. This is actually a good idea. Right now, driving tier X tanks grants ppl two things.
      1 - Frustation
      2 - High repair bill

      Tier 5, 7 and 8 is where the fun the lies. Above that, the game is garbage now.

      Delete
    3. @SounMarch "They are used in CW, give it a try. You are missing the end game if you do not play CW."

      It's a pure joke not an endgame. You have to be in clan to play it and you have to be in strong clan cause in weal clan your whole end game experience ends after 15 minutes (if your team is lucky) - definitely nobody in WG thinks about it long enough. Also, you can use only top tier tanks cause there is no early war or midwar CWs and on map is one big stalemate cause nobody in WG couldn't learn simple one rule - entertainment, fool! - and nobody thought about gold limit, cooldowns for province or scorched earth tactics to improve rotation on map. Watch NBA and learn about salary cap and stop that "big fish eats small fish" crap.

      Delete
    4. I did play in a tier 10 company and it was a nice experience but nothing so special. I find random games with good platoon mates much more entertaining.
      I thought about my idea once more and it has the drawback that people who already have several tier 10 tanks would have access to loads of free xp. And once a new tank line is introduced those players would be even faster to the top.

      Maybe that could be compensated by an increase in research cost of tier 8 and 9 tanks. I agree that tiers 7 - 8 are the most entertaining to play.

      To solve the issues with arty:
      I would massively decrease alpha damage and do the same to tier 10 TDs and compensate that by a higher rate of fire and in case of the TDs a higher accuracy. To get one-shotted is no fun at all especially if you have no chance to avoid beeing shot.

      Whatever WG will do they have to adress this issue. Playing tier 10 is not much fun (1 out of 10 battles is awesome, but the rest just campfest and arty). And if playing is no fun, grinding is neither. And then as a consequence people stop playing.

      @Soun:
      In CWs I can use my T110 E5, T62A and Batchat. Maybe if my field commander has mercy even my IS-7. But thats pretty much it. When I mentioned Maus and JP E100 14 people were laughing at me in TS.

      Delete
  25. I've stopped playing and buying TXs because of arty.
    Horrible & stressfull

    Give us back a reason to play beyond T8 and earn more interest and sell more tanks.
    You loose more than you earn on forcing space artillery into this game.

    Let arty fire faster and with much less accuracy and with reduced damage - max 3-400 hp.
    Just increase compensation for damage and you will have an area devastation weapon instead of a sci-fi spage gun sniper.

    Amen

    ReplyDelete
  26. Sniper mode for arty is a good alternative. But only as one part of a bigger overhaul.
    If SPGs are to gain better direct fire capabilities they should also lose some indirect fire ability.
    Give SPGs a more versatile role. Less "main damage dealer" and "indirect fire TD" and more support.

    The first thing you should even out between SPGs and every other vehicle is the max render distance. Either remove it for every vehicle or at least extend it and have SPGs adhere to it as well.
    Also, please make it a circular area. Having longer range along the diagonal makes no sense.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Yes. This is a good idea. Thank you for considering it.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Dear Overlord

    I'm afraid I have to agree with many of the others in saying arty is to strong. The idea of a barrage with less damaging shells is a good one. Or opting out of matches with arty in it would be great . This would show you without a doubt what your customers want.
    I however still love the game but other game designers are as you know paying attention to what people want and don't want on this very forum. World of tanks has found a game that is what I've been looking for for years and years . I just hope they don't ruin it by stubbornness about keeping arty players happy.
    Keeping with my values I never complain without compliment or solution and bigger maps with more players and do something about the arty please.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Hi Overlord!

    I have all t8 arti in my garage and played nearly 10K battles since beta in arti.

    I think this idea is BS. If I want to play TD I grab my JgdPanther or 268 (sold my JpzE100 - biggest fail in WoT history).

    In their current form arti isnt even suited for TD mode - sure u can have a few lucky games now and then, like this one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z7ku3Npvtc&feature=youtu.be

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH31OEXMjFE

    my GW-E guide

    http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/188758-gw-e-send-love-from-above/page__fromsearch__1


    But usually you dont have the HP, armor, the gun depression and mobility. Its like sending the Maus scouting on Campinovka or Sand River - plain stupid in my opinion.

    Better bring back the old tracer system from beta, reward counter arti (XP/creditbonus whatever) and fix the new tracers for arti. Atm its nearly impossible to find exact enemy arti position.

    And not every nation needs an arti tree ... .

    The current problem with arti isnt that it is overpowered, there are to many artis in every match. Mostly driven by noobs, who cant master tanks and think that arti is the easy way. With the old tracer system, they would lose all interest in arti real fast and leave arti to the players who are really interested in it:

    http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/167947-the-short-life-of-an-arti-noob-a-story-in-3-pictures/page__fromsearch__1

    http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/191586-the-short-life-of-an-arti-noob-part-ii-story-in-3-pictures/page__fromsearch__1

    I dont like those arti parties with 4+ pieces myself - its just boring. The times where the difference between a good and a bad arti player decide matches are gone sadly. Nowdays its just luck which team has more lucky arti noobs, even in hightier matches many t7-8 arti players dont aim in fully ... but the big number of arti garanties hits.

    greetings

    Folterknecht


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ^^^ Agreed. If there was a limit of 2 arties per team, I think this changes the dynamic completely and makes it managable. If you're constantly dying by 2 guys that have 30+ seconds of reload in a t10 match you should probably sell your T10 and go back to trolling forums. I am hopeful that the full 10 tier spread coming for arty will allow more balance in this regard.
      As for an option to opt out of arty -- really? Do you guys honestly think anyone who is NOT playing arty is going to say "yeah, I want arty shooting at me!" It would be 2v2 arty matches if you implemented that.

      Delete
    2. The issue with hard cap is long waiting time.

      Delete
    3. As already stated some times here, i think it is by far the best solution to limit arty to 2 per battle.

      Most ppl want arty either completely nerfed into oblivion, or be able to remove them via button. The reason is its destroying their game, and i have to agree with that. Î see it every day with the tier 7 arty i grind to 8. It`s obvious to most ppl, but havent been so for you guys at WG. For whatever reason.

      So the first step, that you guys admit that too much arty IS A PROBLEM for the lategame, is essential. When this is done, we are on the road for a solution.

      I think the opt-out solution hurts the game, cause the problem will become inevitable and exponentiate for those that dont opt-out. Every match would have lots of arty, there wouldnt be a "lucky" game with just one or two. So more and more would leave over time, destroying the game with artys even more. I would opt-out in most games for sure, since its a completely other game without them and much more relaxing and fun. When i have to guess, i would say 75%-80% of players would opt-out immediately.

      Ripping the artys apart with nerfs is another viable solution,
      but is by far less desirable, since any player that likes to play arty (me included), will be pissed when this comes into effect.
      Imagine you spend hundreds or thousands of hours to grind all the artys up, to see them getting nerfed to oblivion then.
      Thats a lot of wasted time there and a lot of unhappy custumers.

      So, the solution of having maximum 2 artys per battle is the one, that helps both sides the most. It lets the arty players play by far better matches than they have now with their vehicles beeing as good as they are now, on the expense of more waiting time, (which i think most will take with a smile in the face btw) and the people that hate arty (in general or just in masses) will be happy, to actually play the game more, and just sit less behind rocks and houses.

      The waiting time in general is not very long, so i think its absolutely okay to wait one or two minutes to get into a game, when you have a better match setup through this. That sounds very reasonable for me. Most ppl are on their desktop during the waiting time, so it doesnt really matter for them anyway.

      Either way, the endgame will become better in random games for the majority of ppl, and why wouldnt you want hat?

      As for the SPG-TD thingy. I hope that was just a joke.
      I leave it at that^^

      Delete
    4. piledriveryatyas "If you're constantly dying by 2 guys that have 30+ seconds of reload in a t10 match you should probably sell your T10 and go back to trolling forums."

      Yup, you have right, this game is based on camping behind solid obstacles cause nobody wants to be nuked when come time to scout. A solution to this, OP soviet scout, is a one big fail. So maybe we will take scouts and artys (and T10 TDs way to powerful) and tangle it in one mode to do not interupt rest of normal players.

      Delete
    5. @Silberfalke

      Great post, let's hope this is one of the posts that OL actually reads/understands/remembers.. Why Wargaming is so scared of the upped waittime a hardcap of two arties would bring is beyond me. Riot and their League of Legends have people waiting in que for 2-5 minutes all the time and their community does not mind one bit. As long as the game alerts you that the game is about to start, some minutes browsing your favorite websites are not the problem they think it to be.

      Delete
  30. uhm NO ( this game IS arcade )
    The whole point of last arty nerf was to reduce close range effectivness, which was great, and now you want to increase it ? I can't follow your logic.

    "we've screwed up SPGs so badly", yep you did but arty is not the problem, lack of end tanks is... let me explain:

    This game is just massive GRIND fest( so far ), so you got big number of tier 5,6,7,8 tanks GRINDING away ... note no arty problem because there are much more tanks than SPG's ( and because t5,6,7,8 arty's are playing t9/10 battles )
    I) After tier 8 it's almost impossible to get trought tier9 to tier 10 without premium acc/ premium tank, which leads us to first reason for low number of tier10 tanks - not that hard to research, impossible to buy/maintain for f2p players
    II) Tier 10 tanks come elite so you don't have to grind them = no need to waiste time in random battles. Bad luck E100 and M48, haha( You can find a clan and play absolute company if you want to play t10 tanks instead of playing with 14 other people who don't have the same view on gameplay and tactics as you, which often ends with INSULTING,RAGE and me getting 24hours ban once I get fed up with randoms )
    III) Tier 10 (HEAVY) tanks are NOT 'sit in one and own' as they used to be for "pro" players, especially after I can fire as many heat as I like from t8/9 guns, and t10 TD's and meds I still find out of place in this game
    IV) Apart from CW I have no USE for t10 tanks ( I have 4 in garage, 5 researched +2 more soon and NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM WILL SEE RANDOM BATTLES TILL YOUR SERVERS ARE LIVE, not because of arty but because I have ace tanker badge on all of them already - which is only reason I can think of for driving t10 in random )
    V) Players that ran into problem I), but persevered and bought 1 and only 1 t10 tank now have screwd MM and are fugged like hell
    So in the end you fugged up WG... people GRIND arty but they don't PLAY tier 10 tanks ( see what I mean about GRIND FEST )

    Now I want to talk about arty
    As it is now, to grind arty line you still need to get as much xp as other t10 lines
    After introduction of t10 arty line will stretch out and get 2 new arty's minimum but will maintain same xp values for the entire line
    So if we wont get these arty's researched as they are included, how will you fix the fact that we alraedy grinded that xp ( which can be seen in statistics )
    Now other thing, which concers the post; When I switch to indirect fire mode on arty it takes 3-5 seconds for tanks to load up and it sucks... imagine following - you spot a tank 200+ meters away moving towards you -> you want to shoot in front of him so you aim and switch to indirect mode just to be sure you fire little in front of him and bam you get empty map and when he is loaded he is 150+ meters away, your gun is no longer aimed on him and he just killed you. If TD mode can fix that then by all means but I would rather see you make changes to indirect mode be as smoothe as sniper mode.


    If you feel the need to comment people please don't commnet on single word/line, or I will send Liam Neeson after you

















































    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How about NO!!!

      Take it from some of the best players in this game, limit arty to max 3/side and give it back some of the damage. Stop with all this needless 'innovation'.

      Delete
  31. Thing is.. you are trying to accomplish too much... arty with TD, sure.. but then I`ll ask to give my meds more Alpha or arty sights .. and my heavies more speed...

    Arty is arty - big splash from behind the lines... if they have to brawl, well... their team failed in defending them, or the game is lost.

    We have enough mobile "arty" in the new 8.4 TD line and likely in new patches...

    End answer: HELL NO!

    ReplyDelete
  32. For me, the sniper mode is less important. Good arty players are hitting these close range shots anyway.

    The issue is the damage of the high end arty. For example, in tier 10 games, the average hit of an Object 261 has dropped to a very low amount, and I'm often cursing that I'd be doing more damage per shot if I was shooting from a tank. The fundamental problem is the changes made to high explosive shells, which have reduced the output of artillery direct hits at range.

    I'd suggest if you're seeking to rebalance artillery this is where the focus should be, rather than minor gameplay tweaks that reward poor arty players.

    ReplyDelete
  33. There is already a mod that enables snipermode for arties. Atleast there was on 8.3 version.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I've already found that the GW Tiger (at least with the 17cm) plays best in TD mode anyway, so why not support that? Hated it as an SPG so much I sold it and decided to wait for all 10 tiers of SPG so the grind isn't so long.

    Gave me hope for getting the JPE-100 though.

    ReplyDelete
  35. I think (i am partially an arty player) arties are still OP. Just think in lower tiers. e.g. well crewed Bison.
    I dont think that sniper mode is necessary for arties. In lower tiers they have still very good TD capabilities, on higher tiers your wouldnt use it in 9 out of 10battles.
    So my opinion is: it is not a bad idea, it is just not really needed. There are lot of other burning issues atm, what should be taken care. (e.g. New maps? Bigger maps with bigger teams in random battles? etc.)

    BTW: when will be the arties pulled up to tier10? Will it come with 8.5?

    ReplyDelete
  36. I think that that would be very nice ty.

    ReplyDelete
  37. DO enable sniper TD view for arties!
    DO NOT reduce their aiming time!
    DOUBLE the cost of the shells!

    I believe this is the only way your idea will work

    ReplyDelete
  38. 3 points...

    First: Great Idea, was waiting since a long time for this...
    I'm playing a lot of arty and on some maps, its better to leave eagle mode and smash tanks in close combat...

    Second: Also think that most derb gunned tanks than also need an eagle-mode, because they were initially made to be a howitzer, so more a bunker killing arty, than an anti tank...

    Third: Are you fucking serious?!? Tier 10 Arty? PLEASE NOT!!!
    I love playing arty, but than you really have to downgrade the already existing arties a lot, if you want to intodruce 2 more arty levels above the actual one and that wont be good...
    Can't even think about what would happen if you improve arties like the batchat one, bigger magazine? more damage per round? faster?
    Arties are extremly powerful in the right hands at the moment, dont give the community more chances to blame on us!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No,they will move existing t8 arties to tier10. Introduce some arties between.

      Delete
  39. my main issue with arty is simply their ammunition. as it stands HE and HEAT rounds over a certain calibre are just too powerful.
    generally speaking any gun below 105mm isnt effective with HE, infact HE in these calibres is generally useless (even with a full magazine I couldn't even damage the track of a KV with the German MK 103 using HE).
    anything with a calibre of +105mm is extremely effective with HE (unless its AP shell is substantially better like on the Dmax) because even if it does not penetrate it will still do an acceptably high amount of damage(often close to that of a penetrating AP shell) and reliably deal critical damage to modules (internal, external and crew)
    so if you just toned down the amount of damage that artillery does on a non-penetrating hit with HE and reduced the frequency of internal module damage (like engines and crew) while maintaining its ability to damage external modules(like guns or tracks) then I feel it would be at an acceptable level of balance.
    and for HE in general I think the splash damage of the low and medium calibres needs to increase slightly and their ability to do critical damage to things like tracks needs to become more reliable while the damage on non-penetration needs to be reduced for most HE, generally to help reduce the amount of rapid fire derp mediums at the middle tiers .

    ReplyDelete
  40. Way to do it right:

    1. Introduce no-arty mode in game settings, allowing MT, HT and TD to play without arty.

    2. Create separate battle type with only Arty and Light tanks to cut queues on arty. This way even not so great light tanks like pz38 would have their role and chance to do something.

    3. Profit because most players would pay real money for this game if they could play without arty which is pure fiction as it stands in game.

    ReplyDelete
  41. I would add 2 modes for arty.

    1. Deployed
    2. Undeployed

    When your arty move it should be in undeployed mode. During this mode it would only have TD like normal and sniper view, but the reload should be horrible long.

    The other would be deployed mode. In this mode the arty can't move, it can only turn and aim. (It could be a switched mode or automatic when you stop for more then 10 sec.)
    But it would gain better RoF, view, raidio range.

    I would make arty splash even bigger, and much faster rate of fire, also more ammo. But the arty would be much more innacurate in arty view. + Make ammo much cheaper.

    So it would be more like an area bombarder, not like the current precise snipers.

    You know where the enemy is camping, you don't need spot you just bomb the hell out of them. And if you hit then you are lucky. But direct hit should be rare.

    ReplyDelete
  42. I like the idea. But would TD-mode also buff aiming time a accuracy a bit? After all they have different optics for direct fire and they are a lot more accurate than indirect ones.
    And when we are in topic, I have another suggestion to you:
    Real artillery controls the firing distance of the shells (from few km up to 40km with modern artillery) by gun powder packages. This could be mimic in the game as follow:

    1.Before entering the battle, high tier arty could choice how much gunpowder he/she loads with shells
    *with high load, the shooting distance would be exactly as it is now and gameplay would be same.
    *with low load, the shooting distance would be something similar as it is with tier 2 arties.

    Pros:
    -To shoot 600m away, you have to max your shooting angle -> Your shells lands with higher angle and you can shot behind some traditional arty cowers.
    -You are more dangerous in city maps -> may be useful in clanwars.
    -The game play becomes more dynamic because you have to follow the frontline instead of sitting in the base. To get optimal angle, you have to be at your max range all the time.
    -You are shooting closer so your accuracy might improve a bit.

    Cons:
    -You are in greater danger because you are closer the frontline, if the battle in the front is lost, you will be most likely to be next.
    -If attack is divided to two sides, you may not be able to support other side.
    -The penetration of your AP and HE shells is lower due to the lower muzzle velocity.
    -You are less dangerous in very wide maps.
    -Counter artying would become harder.

    Or
    2.Players could switch the amount of gunpowder between every shot. If you get a city map in randoms, you could just reduce your gunpowder load and be more viable. In standard maps, you could start with high load and when enemy get closer switch in to low load and keep hiting your enemy from angles he tough it would never be possible.

    I consider the case 2. a bit too big buff. But case 1. would make playing the arty much more interesting. Especially in CWs it would offer a lot of new tactics.

    ReplyDelete
  43. The idea first sounds great but im not sure if the impact would be as hard as some people are assuming.

    Yes, there are some moments when you really wish to have the sniper view but thats once in 20 games or so when you want to shoot through a window or over some cover. In the usual case it has some really big disadvantages and cant compete with the top view:
    Except for short distances(where 3rd person zoom in is enough) you cant use the sniper view to shoot a moving target because of the travel time you have to aim in front of the enemy. But as you are in fact aiming at the other end of the map or the sky instead of the air in front of the moving tank you will shoot at a high angle and definitely miss. In addition to that the aim time is just horrible. As soon as you move your cursor a little bit you need 4,5 secs to be accurate again. For aiming a fixed position and waiting for enemys to ge there it is ok (Everyone who knows how to use top view aim would not need sniper view in that case). But there is no way to get around a corner and snipe the enemy 200-300m away or if he is on the move. It takes hours to aim and in this time you are usually dead.

    My conclusion: LETS TRY IT OUT!
    It probably would help arties in some rare situations but wont change a lot for serious players. The "ImaTD"guys wont be a big advantage for the team but i think they will fast recognize they better stay hidden.

    As this seems to be a kind of general arty discussion. Here is my point:

    I also hate these 4+ arty matches but i cant understand the people crying
    arty is op and arty is dealing too much damage. The 4+ matches are a gameplay problem while artys as "tanks" are ok and balanced. Check out some statistic websites and look at the avg damage of t8 arties for example:

    Compared with most t10 tanks arties are dealing less damage per battle.
    Its very rare to find a player with more arty dmg then on his t10 tanks.
    In addition to that the t10 tank contributes even more to the victory of the team by spotting, absorbing damage etc.

    I think the problem is not that arty is dealing too much damage. Its more that when you get hit by arty you get enraged because you cant shoot back. When fighting with an enemy tank like for example the JagdTiger you recieve 560 dmg every 10 seconds. If you recieve a direct hit from arty you might get 800/900 dmg but then arty needs 30+ seconds reload. You are just not expecting the arty hit because you dont see it. Its the same with cloaked tanks. How often is someone raging about beeing killed by an invisible enemy? Happens quite often... You get the point?

    And please leave the "oneshot" argument. Yes, it happens but it requires tons of luck. I am playing 3/4 arty matches nearly every day to get double xp but the last t10 oneshot was at least 2 weeks ago. I bet the amount of oneshots is about in the same dimension as blowups. They are definitely not domintaing the game.(Except for AMX-50Bs attacking with their ass first...)

    As long as arty has no above average winrate and above avg damage all should be fine in my opinion because arty is very dependent on its team. Believe me: nothing is more frustrating then 3+ games in a row where you get killed within the first minute because a suicide scout got through.

    Long text but i always wanted to share my opinion to the arty discussions. This seems to be a better place then one of these arty whine threads.

    ReplyDelete
  44. I think it worth a try on a test server.

    I would also try out to give TD-s with derps like, SU-152, Stug with 105mm, and others a top arty view. Since these were also used as arty originaly.

    ReplyDelete
  45. is a good ideea. but do you want ppl play arty or not?
    i thoght you don't like that are so many ppl with arty.
    and you:
    nerf the arty -> +1 for less arty
    but next you make no cover in maps -> -1
    next you put more artys (t10) -> in my opinion is a +1 because ppl love to play new tanks
    next you want to alow them to play as td-s -> imo is a +1 (i love the ideea)

    so:
    we will have to many ppl playing arty.. i don't like that.. but if i play arty is going to be fun.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are absolutely right. From my point of view Wargaming wants less arty, but they do not want to loose too much arty-players. This is why they step one forward and back after it.

      Delete
  46. When you nerfed arties because there were a lot of them in randoms, You were trying to cure sick leg by cutting it off imho.
    Nerfing arties was not a good way to stop people playing it en masse. Wasnt it better to change MM algoritam to allow max 3 arties per team?

    Arties could use a little buff, like little bit more dmg. Obj261 is shitty to play with HE, even type e makes small dmg. Comparing with times when I oneshotted tier8 heavies on regular basis,this is ridiciolus. I am not saying you should make arty as powerfull as before, but little buff would be ok.
    And ofc give them back money-making capabilities, at least for tier 5-6.
    With gw panther I do 2000+ dmg in battle and I earn around 5-10k?

    So no sniper mode for arties,just buff them a bit and fix MM.

    ReplyDelete
  47. The other point I'd like to make is that counter battery is broken right now compared to beta. In beta I was able to kill 1-2 arty a game with my arty. The tracers showed the point of fire and they seemed to last longer and were thicker. Easier to see and more accurate about location. Some us enjoyed counter battery but now it's useless. It's better to shoot tanks because that will have a greater impact on the game for your team.

    I think a special piece of equipment should be available for arty players who want to specialize in counter battery. It would restore the tracers to beta levels. It was common in beta for arties first shots to be CB. Now it rarely happens. You've increased the safety level without taking anything away from them. Put CB back in the game for those of us who enjoyed it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I remember clearly in beta when there was more than one arty a side the arty players asking who was on CB. Now how many of you see this anymore? The reason if that CB is broken right now....

      Delete
  48. Hi Overlord,

    What about the topics I previously posted on your earlier blog post (I haven't got an answer for that back then):

    1. When WoT will have a multicore CPU support? U know now it's wasting CPU potential as of now the game uses only one CPU core regardless of how many u have in your CPU.
    2. With the release of 8.4, you introduced 4 revamped maps (all of them were made earlier for the game, now only upgraded for the new lighning engine and graphics). 2 of them were supposed to be enabled for random matches - Swamp and Komarin, while taking back 2 maps to make them better balanced (Dragon Ridge and Serene Coast). Since the new patch release I had not even one game on those "new" maps in random games. Not a single match. How about that? The ammount of maps right now is too small. Playing random matches makes it a little boring, as u see the same maps over and over again. Previously I proposed that maybe WoT fan community should have a possibility to make new maps (as i.e. in Starcraft 2, where majority of available maps were made by the community). Why not call a contest in which fans could make new maps for WoT (by your provided tools/editors), from which best would make to the game, after reviews on the test server?

    I'm awaiting some info on above questions. Thank you

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree with Majkel. In my opinion World of Tanks lose its feeling because of small ammount of maps to play on. It is boring to see for another time same place ald use same tactics. Why dev team thinks that we need more viechicles instead of battlefields. We have so many machines!!! And now you want to add new SPG line.
      Please hear our voice as we are your community and we love to play World of Tanks and bring us new battlefields in next patch.


      PS Map making tool is a good idea too!

      Delete
  49. Honestly, SPG's is good as they are now. I like playing all kinda tanks and SPG's. Its only a matter of how to adapt to what your given tank/SPG can and Can't. WAY to many ppl don't even know the role of their tank what ever it is a light, med or heavy, and TOO many ppl just rush blindly into the field only to be killed by the smarter player (more patient player).

    As I see it, ppl that complain about SPG's, are ppl with less bra... patience to play this game, its ppl that don't understand how to use cover and how to move between them. SPG's shouldn't be punished for other ppl stupidity.

    SPG's should not be made into TD's imo... and plz... no tier 10 arties!!!

    ReplyDelete
  50. I have an alternative solution. I'd hate see anything that would encourage arty players to act as TD's. Sure, more fun for them, but the risk would be that it would attract morons, who'd unlock arties with specific intention of playing oneshot tank destroyers. If one team gets two such players and another team gets two regular arty players, team 1 is heavily handicapped.

    How about this: special cooldown mode "barrage"

    Each arty vehicle can activate barrage mode once per 7 minutes. It is aimed just as regular arty (thru the arty scope). When it is activated, the artillery vehicle starts a barrage of shells on its target. This mode would be special: the shells wouldn't count as "ammo fired" (thus they'd be "for free"). They would have double its regular splash, but only 1/2 to 1/4 (depending on their caliber) regular damage. Their aiming circle would also count as maximum aim circle of that respective arty, as if it just moved. Rate of fire is roughly one shell each 1-3 seconds, the barrage would take 30 seconds. When using barrage, the artillery vehicle can't move or stop the barrage and its camo factor is reduced to 0 (eg. it is instantly spotted whenever someone even looks at its general direction). Furthermore, barrage shells have distinctive tracers (which would however activate when the shell is in mid flight) and sound effects ("hweeeeeee.... boooom") so the vehicles in the target zone would know they are under barrage fire and had a chance to clear out.

    Basically, the aim would be to create a suppression zone, to which noone would want to enter. While the damage from entering the zone would be lower, it would be also more certain, given the bigger splash of barrage shells. It could create an interesting tactical element, when an artillery could stop an assault dead in its tracks by covering a chokepoint with barrage fire, or possibly during a stalemate (think El Halluf camping) cover enemy positions with barrage fire, forcing them out.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This, in fact adding the "hweeeeee..." sound before impact alone would go a LONG way to making the Arty less of a WTF I'M DEAD?! sort of thing...

      Delete
  51. Well, talking about arties.... Why on earth - instead of enabling TD mode - don't you make them more arty-like?

    1. How about lowering accuracy and damage, BUT increasing blast radius radically? From a mere 10-15 meters to 20-40m, for example?

    2. How about completely reworking arty sound and visual effects? Camera shaking impacts, huge dust clouds, debris flying everywhere, shells screeching down from the sky?

    3. How about tanks tossed around by the blast?

    4. How about adding some kind of "shell shock" effect for surviving tank crews inside the blast radius? Screen goes black/blank for a second or two?

    I'm not an arty fan by any means, but they are seriously lacking in the game immersion/experience department. TD mode is hardly a fix for that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. Not a good idea, that would kill the heavy tanks. They wouldn't be hit for as much damage, but they'd be hit ALL the time by splash. That's about as much fun as having your tooth pulled.

      2. As if we didn't have enough garbage flying around as it is. Just drive behind a few tanks - you won't be able to see a thing because of the dust cloud on some maps. You can't basically defend yourself when you can't see shit, dust everywhere, screen is shaking etc.

      3. Yay, more oneshots... that's what this game needs.

      4. see answer no.3

      No. This would be terrible.

      Delete
    2. 1. How exactly taking less damage, distributed over a much wider blast radius, with less direct hits, instakills would "kill" heavy tanks?

      2. News flash, garbage, dust, gun/camera shake, explosions, etc. can be disabled in graphic settings. I still have them on for more immersion.

      3. Getting one-shotted has nothing to do with tanks getting pushed by blast, sorry.

      Delete
    3. 1. Simple: I didn't mean "kill" as in they'd die more (well, they would), but as in noone would play them. It's called "death by thousand cuts" - yes, currently sometimes an arty shell can oneshot a heavy tank. If you cut its damage in half and double its splash, it will STILL heavily damage a heavy tank, but it will require a lot less skill to boot: you can fire all around the place and the splash will still damage the heavy tank.

      2. Where exactly can I disable for example dust behind the tank? That is, without disabling all the other effects, such as basic gun flame, making the game look like something from 1998

      3. It does. Take the following situation: your proposal counts on doubling the splash. So what will happen is that very light tank, going full speed - enemy arty shell will hit something 10 meters away and the tank is still pushed by the blast. Which is wonderful when pushed for example into the river (instakill), from a cliff (instakill) - and there is nothing you could do about it. No. This is a ridiculous idea.

      Delete
    4. This is a bad idea. The reason being crew/module damage. It's like increasing the RoF. We would have many tanks each battle with entirely dead crews or with so many modules wrecked they'd be useless. You could essentially close down entire paths of advance. You'd be able to splash multi-tanks causing the above mentioned module/crew damage. It would be a nightmare for the tankers....

      Delete
    5. "4. How about adding some kind of "shell shock" effect for surviving tank crews inside the blast radius? Screen goes black/blank for a second or two?"

      They are implemented it already. There are a lot of lags... :D

      Delete
    6. Remember when artillery used to (It still does but not as bad) cripple the entire tank in a single hit?

      I remember getting hit once by a tier 4 arty in my T-34-85.

      My gun was damaged, my turret was damaged, my gunner was killed, my loader was killed and my commander was killed. 5 modules knocked out in one shot. We don't need that back in the game.

      Delete
  52. In my opinion arty needs:
    1. More accuracy
    2. Not to much splash, as you can hit if you know what you are doing (aka get skill involved, instead of luck at the moment)
    3. Rework HE so they don't either do 1-50% or 100% damage but 10-100% depending on how much armor they hit. Balance all arty shells maximum damage around that.
    4. Idea would be to give arty faster fire but less damage. Obj261 is an extra IS-4 damage shot, GW Typ e is an extra Maus damage shot and T92 is an extra e4 damage shot on a spotted tank that is already under fire by other tanks.
    5. Implement a new way to aim that uses more of an real life approach of how arty works. Shoot over and before the target to get the optimum angle to hit a camping tank. Same thing you can do to a certain area to be prepared to shoot there with great accuracy. So more in deth knowhow and skill is needed to play arty.

    This way the haters will not cry to much any more about OMG I get hit for *Very big number* and not every noob can play arty decent. Good arty players should preform good and bad arty players should preform bad. It works kinda like this on other tanks already.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'd hate to see this. Instead of slow shots we'd be pummeled. I can imagine many tanks losing all their crew each battle. Or the module damage. Tanks with everything broken. Our tracks being off most of the battle. Higher RoF is a very bad idea. It would render our tanks useless. It will just pin tanks down so they can't do anything. It would be worse than what we have now.

      Delete
  53. In the opinion of most of us the MM should be made from scratch, but from scratch!!!
    ADDING A LIMIT OF 5 ARTILERIES PER BATTLE IS NOT AN OPTION WHEN ALMOST EVERY BATTLE THE LIMIT IS REACHED!(maybe a limit of 3 arties for the top tier arties would be good).
    The scout MM must be carefully reconstructed as well.
    The MM was designed for a small test game with a total of 2-3 tank branches and right now is totally outdated.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Let me tell you one thing. I've put a lot of money in this game - got at least 4 premium tanks (don't remember exactly, may be more) and I was playing whole time with premium. I was happy to pay it, because I liked it.
    Since last patches it's like - I will turn the game on, play 3-5 games, find out it's still the same sh*t (tiers up to 6 - derp shows (hetzers, m4s, k1vs), 9-10 almighty arty campfests) on the same maps with the same game mods with added bonus of people that have no clue what they are doing and turn it off.
    Not to mention that on the 'remade' maps the tanks feel so sluggish it's not fun.
    So yeah, I think that adding sniper vision for arties is really THE most important thing this game needs.

    ReplyDelete
  55. I Agree with Insane_Dork. Arty needs to be reworked. The nerfs need to stop. As well as the prejudice against artillery. I don't exactly love artillery, but my opinion is that Artillery is a good thing. Hope the following helps.

    Overhead view needs to go and be replaced by direct fire mode. (NO reason this can't be possible, but only if sat view goes) WOT can REALLY learn from the FPS genre here. Especially certain Battlefields mods for which i am a dev/tinkerer.

    Furthermore:
    Reduce shell cost and damage. Increase RoF for many of the lower tier artillery. Perhaps a box like the minimap can reveal where your shells are landing. Or the camera follows your shell. More simple would just be selecting a map square and firing on the area. I'd even like the idea of perhaps an artillery "autoloader" in which your vehicle can fire a barrage of shells to bombard an area (not with precision but with viable accuracy) and when the "mag" is empty, a long reload as you restock shells, allowing you to reposition. Add this and direct firemode will go along i believe. As artillery, your job is to support an offense, shield allies with covering fire and bombard an area. I understand that artillery CAN NOT be entirely implemented as it is IRL. And with a 15 vs 15 team. There are NOT enough players for this system to be implemented. when 30 v 30 comes around, This kind of redesign for artillery can be entirely possible and i believe good for fluid gameplay, which WG has really pushed for with the new meds and maps. But again, current team sizes and map sizes make this unreliable and for the time being; Unviable.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Historically, arti was used as pre-offensive barrage, with big numbers of batteries, over map grids - main objective was to soften infantry positions.

      This is a bit impossible in this game, since you have a max of 5 batteries, firing on moving targets, as opposed to static positions.

      So, I don`t think they can drop the "direct aim" from the arti.

      This being said... it really doesn`t need more buffs, seeing how decent players can brawl with it anyway; sure, there is no incentive to, except for when meds are hunting, but they don` need any, anyway.

      Delete
  56. There are a lot of things that could be changed about arty, but I would have to say that this not the way to do it. The main problems with arty in the game are:

    1. It hits the entire map with low vulnerability

    2. It encourages static (camping) gameplay

    The second issue occurs because the places that are safe from tanks are the same ones that are safe from artillery. Arty can't be an anti-camping or bunker-busting role if those targets can't be hit.

    The solution for this is to give artillery high-angle fire capabilities to allow trajectories that hit close behind hard cover. This would make battles more dynamic by removing locations where tanks are completely invulnerable.

    This would need to be balanced in some way, likely in shorter ranges, requiring arty to stay closer to the front to be effective. This would turn arty from sit-n-click to a much more active experience. Some arty would need a speed buff to be useful, but the battles would have much better flow.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Honestly, you need to implement a few of the ideas here and put them up on a test server and collect experiences. If you show players you are serious about addressing this, players will stick around.

      Delete
    2. What you say will make the games win or lose by arty alone. Right now, on open maps, some flanks are heavy vs heavy peek-a-boo contests.

      Now, with higher angle, you just ensured that arty is one shot - one hit, which will decide the game, which is insanity.

      And I really don`t think "dancing" tanks is the solution either, ESPECIALLY with TD`s and the newer TD`s not being in the font lines, therefore not spotted.

      Your solution will just make arty be able to dictate positions, which might or might not have TD`s overlooking, which will encourage even more camping, because NOBODY will want to be spotted...and will plan accordingly.

      Delete
    3. That's why I want them to take a bunch of concepts and run test servers.

      My recommendation above would likely result in a push hitting a defensive position, waiting for arty to move up, then blasting the position. But that will still present opportunities for lights and mediums to disrupt the push.

      Again, testing out this and other options will let us figure out what is the best resolution to both the finger of god artillery and camping.

      Delete
    4. Pushing is nice.. but it can put you in this scenario (which is REALLY scary with the new TD`s) - heavies in front, with TD`s further back.

      Any head-on push in the above is pure suicide. And you suddenly can`t stop and camp for your scouts to go around or spot - so it`ll be sudden death for whomever gets spotted first, lacking tall enough cover.

      I am all for variety, but I really respect those 1k Alpha guns on TD`s well enough not to need arty to not allow me to use cover, or limit my "avoidance time".

      Delete
  57. In the quest to make it less arcade-ish, will this also remove the ability of many SPG's to fire on the move without planting the recoil spades and dismounting the crew first? I don't care if SPG's have a direct-fire mode, but it was physically impossible for many of them to load and fire while brawling or chasing tanks around buildings - not to mentions the ones with externally-mounted guns with dismounted crew running alongside at 50 km/h.

    ReplyDelete
  58. OK My opinion:

    reduce arty to 2 per game and it may be ok? (if people have to wait so be it)

    problem is you say they had direct optics in reality which is true, however the certainly did not have satellite optics allowing them to see the entire map and shoot moving targets!

    They also could not move and fire like in our game, as they would either severely damage itself or fall over! They had to put down the backfire shovel which took time to setup.

    My suggestion is this:

    1)limit arty to max of 3 per battle (preferably 2)- this better even for arty players , matches of 5+ are ridicules!
    2)make arty have a 3 second or so setting up time for the shovel to be lowered etc (doesnt have to do this graphically - just call it setting up time) ever played COH? like that!
    3) the arty can then only move on the spot without a 2 second shovel retract time.

    This would make the game more enjoyable for all.

    Biggest issue in the game currently as I see it is premium ammo, wether it is for credits or gold it should be removed as it has taken away the skill requited to kill tanks with sloped or high frontal armour and instead now all you have is a point and fire game where all shots penetrate all tanks.... its just rubbish now... please remove them and bring back the skills!

    Just to finish I know this is a game but arty in reality as you wanted to compare it too was an assault/ defense area denial weapon not a tank killer, there are little or no reports or tanks being destroyed by arty in WWII most were destroyed by Tanks or aircraft or infantry with anti tank guns/weapons. They were tracked to keep up with mechanized divisions in bat terrain and the armour protected the crews from small arms fire or shrapnel from counter arty.

    The whole concept is currently flawed and needs a radical rethink.

    By adapting the ideas I gave I believe this would go someway to making it better, but still along way from perfect.

    Your thoughts OL?

    Regards

    Tony

    ReplyDelete
  59. On one hand, alternative direct fire sounds like a ton of fun. On the other hand, I like that currently you need to be relatively skilled to fire direct as arty (and actually hit).

    ReplyDelete
  60. I don't think that enabeling a direct fireing mode for arty
    is a good idea. Actually almost all recent arty changes were
    done to DECRESE the ability for arty to defend itself, when
    confronted with an enemy tank in close combat.

    Especially the new French TD's with their fast speed and moving turrets
    would easily be excellent TD's. Remember that some TD's even have premium
    HEAT grenades, they would become the TD's with the most powerfull guns,
    granted, their reload speed would get in the way, but they can switch back to indirect fire anytime!

    I think their ability to fire directly at enemy tanks should be reduced even further not the other way around.

    ReplyDelete
  61. I don't think this would affect the game too much. Honestly the strategic view works well enough for anything up to a few hundred meters. The third person view point is effective enough for anything closer. A sniper view arty would be useful for city maps. That'd be nice.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Proposed Indirect Arty Changes
    -Arty maintain the same flight characteristics, accuracy and precision
    -Arty fires 5 pellets which use the initial reticule settings at the time the trigger is pulled, but will have a randomized result as if all the shots were independent
    -Each “pellet” has its splash radius reduced by a set percentage, say 25-40%
    -Each “pellet” has its damage reduced by 1/5th of the current shell damage range.
    -Possibly make arty immobile for .1-.2 seconds to represent the salvo going out.
    -Damage is dispersed over a greater area with fewer opportunities for a one shot.
    -The odds of causing some damage is increased

    TD Mode
    -Definitely need something better than what you have now that causes your reticule to bounce all over the place at times when aiming at an enemy. If you are lazy hijack the max zoom out in sniper mode.

    ReplyDelete
  63. I think this is extremely bad idea.

    ReplyDelete
  64. I'd definitely be for it. As it is arty can already direct fire anyway, the biggest pain in the arse being the camera getting caught on the environment. I know someone mentioned this further up, but how viable would it be to have both views (direct fire and indirect) on all vehicles? Obviously most tanks and TD's have very shallow trajectories anyway so they would only gain a small advantage. However, I think it would add another level to play skill (knowing which to use and when).

    ReplyDelete
  65. the root cause of the problem is neither the damage nor the accuracy nor anything else like the gameplay currently desinged for arty as implied by the suggested amendment in this topic. It is the number of arty players; to be more accurate the relative number of arty players for high tiers. we all know that for low tiers it is no problem simply because there are more non arty players and hence the issue is more dilute.

    I would suggest the same thing, limit the arty with max 3, as simple as that. note that too much tX meds also ruin the game, too much pen (gold ammo) as well. Recall the issue with type59, same problem, there were just too many around that they have to remove it from the store. In short too much of everything will ruin the game and fun.

    ReplyDelete
  66. I can't express enough how much I hate arty but if you keep it in the game a good solution would be to keep there numbers down to three and give them more to shoot at by having the matches 30 on 30 with bigger maps. At least this way people will stop feeling singled out so much. I have not spent any money on this game in two weeks and will not spend another dime until this issue is resolved. As for my premium account you have about 170 days until I loose all hope.
    I would also add that people are right about t 10 and t9 tanks when they say you can't make any money off of them. Fix that please and limit the number of premium shells to five or six each tank to balance out the game some . When everybody is using gold rounds you have to as well to even things out. Plus the cost per shell is way out of whack. I know some people enjoy using arty and I want them to continue to have fun as well but something has to be done about there power to carry the game. I have been in several matches where arty has more kills than the rest of the team which would be great I it was called world of arty

    ReplyDelete
  67. I hate when people complain about their being 4 arty on a team an call that an arty party.... Lets complain about having 4 heavy tanks on a team, or 4 medium tanks on a team, or 4 td's or 4 lights. You people single out arty too much, any reason to whine is a reason to whine.

    I play an E-100, I LOVE my E-100, it's my favorite heavy tank. I do fine with it, and I don't really get artied in it, even though it's one of the community proclaimed arty magnets. Why? Because I know how to not draw attention from arty, and I know to sit back after a long spotted time so arty loses interest. If I get killed by arty I can say it was my fault because I kept myself spotted for too long. Why can't all these whiners do the same? I've seen an is-7 sitting just barely behind a hill, clearly visible for a LOOOOONG time, then he whines when my t92 lands a good shot on him and damages him for 1200. If you get yourself hit by a t92, the t92 isn't OP, you're a moron for letting it get the chance to shoot you. If you don't think there should be arty in this game, you can go uninstall, or you can be the smart one and play arty for yourself and learn its ins and outs, but don't sit here and whine about something that you know little to nothing about.

    ReplyDelete
  68. With an M40/43 my highest arty, I think it's a good idea. Even as much as I dread it in my T95.

    One option would be to balance the mode by creating a delay time. I've always wondered why the artillery firing stabilizers couldn't extend for better aiming or something.

    In this case, setting the stabilizers to fully down could be required for overhead mode, but retracted fully for TD mode. This way if artillery chose to go into TD mode, there would be a delay and therefore commitment to that firing method. So arty could not TD one shot a scout or other vehicle, then go to overhead mode to support downrange.

    Good luck either way.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Here could be the modes.

      1. Normal mode: starting position, can not fire below 15° (or some calculated angle to stay out of full TD mode). Overhead mode normal accuracy.
      2. TD mode: takes medium time to deploy to manually lower the gun under 15°. Or aiming below that is just generally slower as to "lock" the gun angle and make it harder to adjust gun side to side angle.
      3. Entrenched mode: takes the longest time. Higher overhead accuracy, but takes additional time to retract stabilizers to move.

      Delete
  69. I can imagine 3 SPGs camping around corner in city map. No way anyone will challenge them..

    I would rather test solution of rapid autoloader type SPG:
    -For example 3-5 shots with 0.5 second delay between them
    *Lot lower damage per shot
    *Bigger splash radius
    *First shot would go where it has been aimed, and rest would have increasing variance on "target circle". In a way simulating SPG squadron shooting in target location.
    *Might make light tank life too hard?
    *Would lead to "teamdamage"
    *Would make Counterartillery more efficient and easier
    *Would remove most "Hey, I just ate more than half of your HP with single shot"

    And about that Tier X playing in public games... It's not fun, because every new Tier9(+) (TDs, Mediums, Heavys)can penetrate easily everything they meet even without premium ammo. Leading to situation where playing with those just costs too much and you don't even get the feeling that you are the big, bad Tier X whos contribution matters the end of battle meaningfully more than some good Tier 9s. (Oh yes, i have 7 Tier X tanks, and I rather play with Tier 9s, even on Tier X games...)

    ReplyDelete
  70. Screwed up? In that case, I would say you're not playing it right. SPGs are still highly influential in random battles in WoT, so I would say they are still working as intended.

    Instead of SPGs (which I still feel should never have been introduced into WoT), why not enable Strategic View mode for historical tanks that were armed with howitzers? Tanks like the M4 Sherman for example, provided indirect fire support with the 105 mm howitzer during the war.

    On the other hand though, I would only agree to this idea provided that the SPG's damage dealing is nerfed. This way ensures that their guns are no better than a tank destroyer.

    ReplyDelete
  71. This is quite possibly one of the most cretinous ideas WG has ever come up with, and that is saying something in your long and illustrious history of military-grade clusterfucs.

    I've spent almost $1000 on your game since beta.

    Three things are increasing in urgency and make me want to quit:
    1) Anti-German bias led by SerbB, the pretentious cretin, who deserves to be fired or shot. Preferably shot.
    2) N00bs... so many n00bs...
    3) Arty, which has no place in this game.

    You can fix 1+3.

    However, if you implement arty TD mode I'll simply take my money elsewhere.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Belvoir Sanache

      Second could be connected with first. A policy to keep veteran players and not exploit a new ones could improve a playerbase abilites. But to do that you got to have a balanced game and interesting endgame content and for that latter I think is too late - garage battles will be implemented in War Thunder and historical battles are pointless whet whole WT will be alike - sorry SerB sunk a game with his moronish ideas.

      Look how proper tree should look like:

      http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3720951/Re_War_Thunder_Tanks

      Delete
  72. I'm thinking about three main changes:
    1. Longer shell flight time
    2. Slightly longer aim AND/OR slightly less accuracy
    2. Reworked spotting for arty's "satellite view"

    The increased flight time encourages people to keep moving. The aim time AND/OR accuracy change also encourages movement. Stay still too long and you get pummeled. That's fine.

    The main change though, which I think would encourage better scout play also, is to implement a system whereby when a tank is first spotted, it show up in arty satellite view as a very blurry or large outline of a tank. The idea being that you know a tank is in that 15 or 20 meter area, but not exactly his heading, speed, cover, etc. The longer the tank is spotted, the more he comes into focus for arty. If the scout loses sight for a second, then the target goes out of focus. This would make it much less rewarding for suiscouts, as a 1 second spot doesn't help arty very much. A five second spot means arty can home in and drop his LGB right onto the target though. I thinks this helps emulate the radio conversation that would be going on between the scout and the arty.

    IDK, I just think the main issue is that with the current spotting system and the overhead view, arty can see over the horizon as clear as if he was 20m away. There needs to be a little fog of war. Making it so that when a tank is spotted he is not just immediately served up on a silver platter for arty.

    This obviously encourages passive scouting. If light tank camo ratings need to go up a little to help them to accomplish this then so be it.

    ReplyDelete
  73. It seems to me as a player of slow, heavy tanks that arty is the main reason for the decline of the behemoths, there's no point driving something slow when fast firing arty can hit you multiple times (ie - the Frenchies) and leave you unable to do anything about it. Try crossing any open space in a Maus and chances are you'll be nuked within an inch of your life, over and over - negating any desire to play a slow moving tank ever again.

    I don't mind arty - but at the moment it's far too accurate and responsible for far too much damage done.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Even at the height of T10s hay day there was T8 arties. The decline of T10 players, IMO, are for multiple reasons. My guess is that the introduction of T10 TDs and mediums also affected players. Knowing that your Maus could be destroyed in a few good shots from a 268 has discouraged ppl from playing their charished T10s that have crap repair bills and poor earning potential. On balance this may seem to be a self cancelling problem, but if you don't platoon in your T10s with other skilled players you run the (increasing) risk of having other T10s on your team that lack skills. In other words, the cost of failure at the top is much higher, so unless you can assure a good chance of victory by platooning or TC, then it's not worth the risk to most. I rarely play my T10s for these reasons. Arty has little to do with it.

      Delete
    2. I resigned mainly due to arty parties.

      Delete
    3. @piledriveryatyas

      1) Arty
      ...
      5) Boredom (srsly CW as an endgame content?)
      6) Too powerful T10 TD's (and some T9)
      7) Too good guns on T10 (and T9) MTs

      Delete
  74. are you still reading these posts OL or did you give up half way through? as no more comments from you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Asked me the same thing.

      I think he didnt expect so much flak on this topic.

      But it just reflects how big of an issue it is for the game.
      It can be gamebreaking in the long term.

      Delete
    2. agreed they need to get this right!

      I also suggest that the S51 which has the highest number of 1 shot kills gets moved up to a much higher tier... it is way too accurate and has massive damage even compared to other higher tier spgs.

      The nefs havent worked... spgs still get the majority of kills, there are still 5 arties per team appearing.

      WG dont just sit on this we need radical action and thinking.

      Delete
  75. since premium ammo is allready loaded, the game became really bad... thats my opinion.
    No tactic, just shoot and hit where you want.

    Artys with sniper mode??
    Whats the next joke? Heavys with arty-mode?
    Lights with 250mm armor?

    The balancing is gettin worse every patch, thats my opinion.
    No clear rules for the tanks anymore.
    I wish, scouts would be scouts, Meds would be for flanking and heavys rolling bunkers like it was in the beginning.
    And Artys the might from behind, but easy to kill.

    This game sucks more and more... I´ll play my left 5 days of premium gametime and then leave this game.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yup game is getting worse with every patch, there so many unfinished balancing issues and they still adding new ones:
      - Kw 1S - too strong with 122 gun (just try T6 company, only KW1S counts if SerB cannot see that this means he is blind or arrogant)
      - SU 44-122 too strong for T7 premium, better as T8 premium and much better as T8 regular instead uralmash
      - French TDs from T7 to T10 too strong and now we got too strong UK TD's at tiers from 6 (except Churchill) to tier 9.
      - no clear policy towards scouts - t5 T50-2 is much more stronger than t6 or even t7 lights (chaffee with gold can reaps 5 T8 tanks in single battle, so this means that someone screw balancing).
      - too strong arty from T2 to T8, maybe leveling up T2 arty as T4 arty will help but I heard that WG got other plans.
      - still not balanced derp guns - T18, T82, T40, Hetzer, PzIV, M4, Jumbo etc are still too strong.

      Thankfully some good guy posted WarThunder Army trees - no fantasy tanks, less arty, additional AA vehicles and recon cars, yummy! I hope that they will go retail soon.

      Delete
    2. Wow, those trees are really nice. Armored cars and light tanks joined in recon line, instead of paper SPG, rockets. Although there are some strange things like Luchs (tier V) leading directly to Tiger (tier VI) :)

      I am sorry Overlord, but we are just getting from Gaijin historical mode so long awaited by many people, who really like WoT. And only because of these real life feature lack in WoT I will start playing WT and limit my time in WoT.

      There are still 2 things with which you can win with Gaijin: great historical mode and European tanks.

      Delete
  76. Agree...with stipulations, is possible to make arty take a time hit to deploy to td mode/arty mode and then lose mobility while process unfolds ?

    ReplyDelete
  77. Well... This should probably have to be tested thoroughly before implementing. It might work, it might fail. There probably would be quite a difference between countries. Russian arty is slow and cumbersome while French and some German and US arties are quite agile.

    Btw. What needs to be added is one checkbox in settings...
    The ability to stop the camera from switching to the killer tank when you get killed. I HATE when my camera goes to the tank that killed me...

    ReplyDelete
  78. I support this feature. After arty nerfed, i sold my GW Tiger, which has been just awful to play, no where to hide, no where to run and no dmg also... You may save the day with this.

    ReplyDelete
  79. SPGs, as the laser-guided-bomb launchers they are, are able to power-project across the map with very little risk, and do tons of damage to any tier vehicle.

    I would like to see counter-battery fire encouraged in a big way. These days, CB is non-existant.

    SPGs should have to deploy into a stationary position before they can use strategic view mode, and that this locks the hull. It should take a few seconds to deploy and un-deploy.

    It should also be easier to find SPGs that are firing. Currently it's near impossible. I'd like to see SPG tracers (regular tank tracers are fine) return to the long trailing tracers we had before, and maybe make visible smoke come out from the SPG when it fires, that everyone can see.

    Essentially, make the SPGs have proportionate risk to themselves, for the damage they can project onto other players.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It'd also be nice to see the skill basement for artillery raised. Any fool can hop into a tier 5+ arty and do devastating damage to any player, regardless of his skill, and nearly regardless of the victim's skill.

      I can be driving at near full speed in a medium tank, evading arty and traveling quickly from cover to cover, all while trying to fight other tanks next to me, and a stray artillery shot can ruin my tracks and chop my hitpoints by one or two thirds. It's ridiculous. You guys may have nerfed them slightly, but arty is still extremely powerful in this regard.


      Additionally, I would very much like to see a barrage mode implemented. Here are two ideas for it, from myself and from Frank Davis respectively:
      http://petukocasual.tumblr.com/post/32597154075/world-of-artillery-a-fundamental-change
      http://ftr-wot.blogspot.cz/2013/03/arty-suggestion-barrage-mode.html

      Delete
  80. You know, I just played a game, and it reminded me. I honestly have no problem with the way that arty plays now so long as WG knows and understands that, in the vast majority of times, arty has no control on whether or not their team wins or looses and they do not make the the player's penalty for a loss or death of their arty so harsh.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Just as an example. Not long after arty got its repair costs increased I had a really good loss in my T92, I'd done over 8500 damage and knocked out 5 tanks. However, my team couldn't follow up. I was the last one alive on my team, and after expending all my ammo, including the 2 gold rounds I usually carry, I was killed. With my premium account I made 63000 credits, not bad for a tier 8 arty. However, my expenses for the match, after everything I did to keep myself alive and after every shot I fired came to over 70000.

    I could have honestly just fired 4 or 5 shots and sat their and waited for the inevitable and done just as well if not better, but I fought hard and burnt everything I had to try and save the team.

    For fighting as hard as I did because of the expensive ammo and high repair cost of my tank and basically carrying my failing team I lost about 10k credits. It's this imbalance of effort vs reward that infuriates me, not to mention the frustratingly hit and miss tendencies of the T92.

    Face it, there's a reason why the top scoring players don't gravitate to arty.

    I've honestly had games where I've fired 8+ rounds and none of them have even gone close to who I was trying to hit and I barely made anything, conversely I've had games, much more rare, when I've landed most of my shots and done fantastic. Any skill is balanced out and made meaningless by a very loose RNG.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Face it, there's a reason why the top scoring players don't gravitate to arty."
      -True, the top scoring players don't care for the worthless gameplay that artillery provides. If we want to be challenged by point and click we play Solitaire or Minesweeper...

      Delete
  82. I have a little question out of this post...

    WG just announced that Leo 1 (medium tier 10) will be part of 8.5 and now I want to know whether I need to grind E50 to get it (because the other tanks like india tank, are not named...), or the 3002db like it's shown on the tech tree?

    Thanks ;)

    ReplyDelete