Purpose of this blog

Dmitry Yudo aka Overlord, jack of all trades
David Lister aka Listy, Freelancer and Volunteer

Thursday, August 30, 2012

[WoT] On German Tech Tree

So, let's turn on creative and slightly crazy mood, assuming that the data provided here is not a second-class Soviet propoganda, but something that has ties with the reality, and try how it could work out.

JagdPz IV will lose its 8.0, however the importance of L/70 with 150mm pen will grow. Certain RoF buff might be required, all in all, the vehicle will be good. Stug will go totally OP, and we might want to cut L/70 off. Have to maintain Soviet bias theory after all.

Both Tigers can't mount anything  better than 8.8. It would be easier to file down the long one and lift them one tier up in the tree. All VKs would lose 8.8 guns and Schmalturms, having L/70 as top mounted in standard 3001 and 3601 turrets. Minor agility buff would also come in handy. Thus we are getting fast and furious machine guns and slow heavies with huge alpha-strike.

Heading to higher tiers. KTs (and up) and Porsche vehicles would also go one tier up, loosing overbuffed guns. KT loses its 105mm, VK4502 B - loses 128mm and gets armour reduction (there is another version of it). Free slot at tier 8 (tiger line) would be filled by Lowe (yes, no more farming for it) with its native 105mm.

That was easy indeed. Now, we are facing some issues. We need 2 more tier 6 vehicles, keeping in mind that Tigers should be descended from Pz. IV as a replacement of that sub-heavy. Doing some shifting in the tree and eventually getting that Pz. III/IV path leads to its complete strangers - 3001 and 3601. Not good at all. Ok, introducing DW here, which in reality was an interim vehicle. It can mount L/48.

And Ferdi! Ferdinand is no longer connected to its direct ancestor - that's bad. Ok, decreasing its tier and removing this sci-fi 128mm thing. Should it keep the 105mm? Hm, prolly. Testing will show, anyway the armour it too good and can be decisive.

And yes! Now we've got two mice: the 2nd Maus at tier 10 with 150mm gun and E-100 turret.

And now the final German tech tree ...


Note: Легкий танк - light tank, Средний танк - Medium tank, Тяжелый танк - Heavy tank. 

a competely idiotic one that will never come true, I must say. Looks hilarious, though! :)

145 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. (And will never appear in the game .)

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. Better to say : Nerfing Germans is shame .
      Don't know how exactly you put the Tiger (Panzer VI) lower than Panther (Panzer V) ..
      While Panther was older (and not better) than Tiger ..

      Maus 2 ? Is it some new E50M-like a fantasy sci-fi tank that never was even in blueprints ?

      Delete
    4. Panther was actually newer fyi. And depending on the situation also better

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    5. @ David Diamond.

      Tiger production started in August 1942, Panther in January 1943.

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    6. @ David Diamond: "Don't know how exactly you put the Tiger (Panzer VI) lower than Panther (Panzer V) .."

      It might surprise that the Tiger saw action EARLIER than the Panther (e.g. Wiki: "The Tiger was first used in action on 23 September 1942 near Leningrad." The Panther, on the other hand, saw action only in mid-1943.) The numbering is not everything, they are different tank classes conceived about the same time.

      And it's rather bold to say that the Panther was no better than the Tiger. Again, bearing in mind that they were totally different classes and both suffered from many baby illnesses, the Panther was MUCH easier and cheaper to manufacture, which was one of the major drawbacks of over-engineered German tanks like the Tiger I, Tiger II, Ferdi, and Jagdtiger. They looked impressive, were impressive (if they had enough fuel and their engines did not miraculously overheat), but they usually cost more resources and time to produce than anything thy managed to kill. (Even those which killed 10 or 15 M4s or T34s).

      So yes, Tiger was a great, innovative tank, but most of it's fame is more or less a legend ;-)

      Delete
    7. Thanks all , to let me know that about Panter . I used to think that Panther is older because of Panzer-X numbering .
      Anyway , I understood that the Germans developed them in parallel .

      Delete
    8. @David Diamond

      Not they didn't, the tiger development started around the year 1939 but never took off, the panther started in 1941 in the sloped armor tank panic then the germans fist met the russian T-34.

      Thats why the tiger 1 is a box while the panther has slopped armor.

      Delete
    9. @Eduardo Pereira

      So the Germans (started) developed\ing "Panzer 6" before "Panzer 5" ?

      Delete
    10. Think i got it , the Panzer-X numbering is by Wight ?
      Or by the first day of mass-production ?

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    11. I hope it become true, I wanna skip vk3001p to tiger(p)

      Delete
  2. All you have to do is send some vodka to the Minsk office and plant your own Maus II 'blueprints' somewhere in a German archive.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And I greatly prefer this tree because the JpzIV problem gets solved XD

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    2. And lure Serb into a diplomatic bag and have him shipped to some remote research station that is resupplied and refueled once a year. I already feel that Serb is looking at 3002 DB's rear transmission.

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    3. Maus-II lower chassis is not any different than the normal Maus.

      Maus-II is only a change in turret as specified by Krupp:

      http://250kb.de/u/110618/j/fvmSXJqRQdBy.jpg

      Delete
  3. I totally like it somehow, At least after I saw the picture, before I misunderstood it a bit. Only thing I'd change is that I'd let the Tiger keep the long 88, with seriously nerfed ROF, a bit like the ARL44 has its low ROF high pen gun.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hi Overlord,

    Please tell me if this is an old tech tree or a new tech tree that is going to be implemented? And btw why is it there is a Lowe in the tech tree,it is a premium tank.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. >>a competely idiotic one [the tree] that will never come true, I must say

      Relax, that's just a joke of Slava Makarov (one of game's developers) published in world-of-kwg.livejournal.com =)

      Delete
    2. And please do read the article first before posting-shame on you for watching the pics first :]

      Delete
  5. I like this idea :) (especially the leo-1 a t10 :D).
    With buffed L70, and better mobility the 3601 should be a good tank.
    And Tiger I at T6 will be killer (closer to it's historical image).

    Lh.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Shifting Tiger and Tiger P by (removing its additional armor) to T6 is possible. Also, that was requested - at least for Tiger H a lot of times back in the beta already.

    KT at T7, now thats more historically accurate, but hell that thing may just be too strong there. Lower hull @ historical 100mm and a 88 as top gun with worse mobility may be able to balance it. But not sure about that.

    The same lowe as the premium tank, now that has to be a joke. Maus II, that is the most uncreative thing i have ever heared of.



    Anyways
    Overlord, does this have any significance?
    At least the concepts for T6 meds did sound great for me and the Tiger H at T6 for sure (but what gun than?)


    Regards! :)

    ReplyDelete
  7. Tiger at tier 6 might work, at tier 7 its a death trap with a wet paper bag for armor.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I became seriously worried when reading this... then i realised its just for a laugh... it was a relief...

    Anyway this sure is a good example of how idiotic players´s sugestions can be...

    ReplyDelete
  9. Overlord are you planing to introduce jadtiger ii or krocodil like the image? http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/germantd.jpg/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This german tech tree is going to be introduced on eu server? http://worldoftanks.eu/media/show/1130/

      Delete
  10. just to clarify, this is only a joke and will not be implemented in game right?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That tree is for sure more correct than mine

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  11. Overlord next time expected April 1 to make a joke ;).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. KK, I will prepare myself.

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    2. You got the chart upside-down, Overlord.

      You should start with the Maus and E-100 at tier 1, then end up with the Leichttractor at tier 10.

      Delete
  12. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  13. you guys are blind

    please try to read last words one more time.

    But because i am afraid that you wont find it, like first time , i am gonna write it down for you :

    And now the final German tech tree ...
    a competely idiotic one that will never come true, I must say. Looks hilarious, though! :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The tree will probably get to complicated to be used.
      Even still it would seem to be much better historically accurate.
      And would balance out the german tree to me more competitive nation wide.

      Delete
  14. Just give the german T9-10 guns higher pen rates and everything will be fine.

    The much better solution would be to simply nerf all the new t9-10 guns with their ueber 270ish penetration values to values which are closer to the german guns (like 255). This way armor will become more important again and the game more balanced...

    ReplyDelete
  15. Overlord, please give us some information :P

    For me it looks like a april fools joke by WG.com.

    That means most of it is fantasy, but few parts will actually be introduced into the game. (like the object TX TD of the soviets in the orignial april fools :P)


    Regards

    ReplyDelete
  16. Overlord, how much experience to research new soviet 7 tier TD in 0.8.0?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Remove 75L70 from the Stug if it has 150 penetration then it's too much for T5.
    Put 75L58 Konisch instead, with exactly the same stats Stug III's old 75L70 had or slightly less alpha (125) but higher ROF/0,01 better accuracy.
    Problem solved. Properly balanced Konisch basically removes ANY issues connected with "intermediate" gun.
    Right now Konisch is a pay-to-win, while it could be a valuable as a filler-gun between 75L48 and 75L70.
    88L56 can always get buffed to 141 penetration. This would be enough to make VKDB and JP IV useful.

    Panther could get 75L70 as its top gun, and get rebalanced towards being fast, accurate but big med, with 8 degrees gun depression.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The konisch have 65 of alpha damage, not 125 :)

      Delete
    2. Read my comment before responding, because reading comprehension is not your strong point.
      "Put 75L58 Konisch instead, with exactly the same stats Stug III's old 75L70 had or slightly less alpha (125) but higher ROF/0,01 better accuracy." - what's so hard to understand here?

      Delete
    3. Same gun with different damage. Mmmhh i dont see anything like this in the game. Good idea

      Delete
  18. Overlord, I LOVE THIS IDEA!

    Seriously, it would fix so many problems with the Tiger I to drop it a tier, and it would be an opportunity to rebalance German gun penetration to more realistic levels.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Overlord u wanna ban for dat?
    Don't make me ban you for that excessive trolling!!

    ReplyDelete
  20. interesting!
    is all i can say here besides:

    1. your idea overlord?
    2. what is a DW? never heared that...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I guess that he means the Durchbruchswagen

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    2. 1. The idea of ours, it was being discussed for some time within the team, I've decided to share.

      2. Correct.

      Delete
  21. Is this an excuse for rules changes and nerv which will come?

    So you can say: "We could it make even more worst then we do!"

    ReplyDelete
  22. Please say that this is not a joke and you will do it:( PLEASE MAKE MAUS II!!!!! BTW, will you give the maus a new turret/gun?

    ReplyDelete
  23. As someone who plays almost nothing but German, I actually like this quite a bit. Tiger would do better with lower tiering (even with the short 88) and the KT would be pretty good too even without the 105mm guns since it'd have T7 tiering and keep it's front plate and turret face.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Haha Epic
    Now overlord, we are delving into the realm of the conspiracy artisans here...

    Though I would not object to such changes.

    ReplyDelete
  25. As someone who plays all Trees but got the E-100 first, I really think it fixes quite a few issues in the game currently.

    I agree Pen is simply out of control ATM, so tiering down tanks and using more historical guns seems like a really good idea.

    ReplyDelete
  26. The idea of not giving tanks the weaponry they were never supposed to have, is not bad at all.
    It comes hand in hand with engines and other modules too, and goes through many tank lines. I would create bigger difference between Hvys and Meds.
    I don't see this tree that much idiotic Overlord, just more or less adjustments in other trees woud have to follow.

    richmi

    ReplyDelete
  27. I personally liked that tree, even as a German-focussed player...

    ReplyDelete
  28. Please Overlord tell me will the Germans get a T5 or T& heavy and pls stop increasing German tank size and decraseing other nations tank size

    and please Answer

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. T&? U mean T7? ( 7 is were & is ).... there is already a T7 heavy.... in fact - 2 of them .

      Doubt we will see any T5 heavy for Germany. Cant think of any tank that could fill that slot.

      But if it makes u feel any better, the VK3601 was actually a heavy tank prototype ( leading to Tiger ), and is going to become a T6 heavy sometime instead of remaining a medium.

      Delete
  29. This sure beats the current tree, too bad the changes are too dramatic to go through without community backlash (WG would never have the balls to do it).

    ReplyDelete
  30. Do somthing with E100 last time u give it nerf and buff at the same time. Where is the logic and do not hide behinde stats.

    ReplyDelete
  31. 1) Next problem is AMX 50B compare with Batchat its a junk on traks.

    2) Hits for zero, add voice messeges like "armor absorbed the impact" or FIX IT.

    This new german tree is waste of human sources for WG and Maus II is a bad joke. Just add new turret+gun to currety maus and we have "mase II"

    ReplyDelete
  32. This would make me play a lot. Right now the people playing Germans are screwed in every line except the mediums, I won't play until I see something like this happen. Anyway, great/fun ideas!

    ReplyDelete
  33. You are just making fun of those who are rightfully complain about the ridiculously underpowered german heavies.

    This is a behaviour which belongs to a preteen boy, who instead of debating starts to repeat others opinion with higher tone and strange gestures.

    Seriously, this is childish! SHAME ON YOU OL!

    ReplyDelete
  34. Nerf those OP germans! They need it.

    ReplyDelete
  35. I like the idea to put a nice L70 for tier 6 Vks and for 30002DB. Check it, it is nice idea and more historical ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. With that idea the VK3002DB sould be the exception. When you think about it it's a t7 not t6. With the L70 on it, it would cause a already hard to play tank (for new players) to become even harder.
      And becuase of that it will need a replacement for the 88.

      Delete
  36. Removing the short 88 is only a theoretic nerf :p I am so frustrated I often think of using the long 75mm instead...

    I like your way of thinking tbh however I think I would have more fun putting Tigers as tier 8:

    VK3601 (7) -> Tiger H (8) -> Tiger II (9) -> E-75 (x)
    E-75 (x) -> E-100 (x)
    VK3001 (7) -> Tiger P (8) -> VK4502 B (9) -> Maus (x)
    Tiger P (8) -> VK4502 A (8) -> Tiger II (9)
    Maus (x) -> E-100 (x)

    This would give germany 3x tier 10 heavies with the E-100 as a side project from both lines and VK4502 A as a link from the Porsche line to the Tiger II...

    Obviously Im not super confident with the 3 tier x tanks however I really think it would cater to the hardcore german players giving them better variety at tier x, moving the Tiger to a more prominent place in the hierachy and provide a flow and more streamlined development.

    About moving the Ferdinand down I don't think it's necesary, however the reduced hitpoints, decreased traverse speed and a smaller cannon will balance it out fine being vulnerable to artillery, tier 7 mediums etc.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Honestly I like it, but I don't like it like I have a tiger P I researched VKausfA and now it's lower tiered = less xp.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Replies
    1. I hope you stay at your current producer job (we love you here), and not become a technical staff... never ever.

      Delete
    2. cause you're crazy ;P

      *flies away*

      Delete
    3. Yep, who wants a Maus a tier 9 anyway?. :)

      Delete
  39. This tree is great
    balance for WOT game play now :P

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree. and overlord have you considered nerfing and moving VK 3601 to tier 5 heavy slot?

      Delete
  40. It looks better, but I'm not sure I'm thrilled with the idea of the Lowe getting added. I own a prem Lowe and it will make me feel less special. :(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Those that bought it might get some sort of compensation for it. Maybe exclusive new premium or something.

      Delete
  41. İ want 88 mm Pak 43 Noshorn :(
    I want jagdpanther 3 http://www.nast-sonderfahrzeuge.de/fotosammlung/displayimage.php?pid=2834&fullsize=1
    I want e-100 Crocodile
    I want Gas turbine Jagdtiger http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/145029-gas-turbine-jagdtiger/
    I want buff panzer 3 50 mm gun (110 mm penetration and fast aim)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jagdpanther 3 is fiction no blueprint of it where ever made.
      Same goes for the Panther 3 (E-79).

      Delete
  42. I like this kind of trolling:

    - So you don't like how I cook? So eat your shit instead!
    - Disgusting, right? So my cooking isn't that bad after all!

    Trolled! :D

    ReplyDelete
  43. I think it is a great tree actually, too bad it was only a joke :(

    8.8mm L71 had 233 penetration at 100m - That would make a great Ferdinand top gun, super great Tiger II gun and a really decent tier 9 gun (it all depends on the other stats). Final 128mm gun could have 250-260 pen which would be great on tier 10 and 9 =)

    Stop trolling overlord and gives us some realism ^^

    ReplyDelete
  44. Hi Overlord,
    actually I would be quite happy about getting tanks a little closer to
    their original versions. The PzIV is a good start, now I'm hoping for the
    Panther to loose the Schmalturm.

    I would also love to see the Ausf B as a seconf tier 8 choice
    next to the version A, jsut with more armour and firepower.

    All in all, keep 'em coming, nice to see you blog being so active!

    ReplyDelete
  45. Hi Overlord,

    Here is my opinion on german tank tree(tier 5 and above).

    Tier 5

    PZ4 - This tank is great now and i'm not happy with announced changes to this tank.
    What you should consider is to buff him and give him mm value of tier 5 heavy because, german tree thosen't have tier 5 heavy.
    PLS CONSIDER THIS
    Stug - Great tier 5 td and pls don't change it

    Tier 6

    Tier 6 is awful and this tier need some rework now.
    VK3601 - Change it to HT, you announced this change a year ago and as HT this tank will need better gun maybe 8.8 L71
    JagIV - Consider this Hellcat have turret and is much faster yet jag4 has much lower pen.
    I think you should add gun from dmax on jag4.

    Tier 7

    Tier 7 is ok except gun on vk3002 this tank needs slightly better gun and tiger should have slightly better rof than tiger p or accuracy.

    Tier 8 and 9

    MT,TD and HT(E-75 and KT didn't play other line) are ok but little
    buff on kt and pen buff on 12.8 L55 is welcome.

    Tier 10
    E-100 - You should talk to your tank expert and ask him is there some other gun that can be mounted on e-100 something like 12.8 L61.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Nothing ever said you all had to go tier to tier for the side branchs. For example, if the Tiger P is tier 6, there is no reason it can't feed the Ferdi at tier 8. Just a longer grind is all. Or, add the Elefant as 8 with the Ferdi at 7. Elefant had better vision, slightly better armor, could be a separate tank....

    ReplyDelete
  47. some suggestion:
    Tigers keep 88/L71 because noobs need it,
    jagd IV add 88/L71 because TDs need bigger gun and Su-100 buffed.

    ReplyDelete
  48. This looks so much better than the current tech tree...
    I am secretly hoping it's a plot to make us all surprised that it's going to happen.

    ReplyDelete
  49. What will the Mause 2 be? The Maus is already really powerful and adding a much bigger gun on it could make it pretty OP, especially it it gets other enhancements as a new model.

    Are there any talks about adding a 2nd medium or heavy line to the US tree?

    ReplyDelete
  50. I totally support the idea. This especially would help Tigers and VK45, because (IMO) they should have good armour against opposing tanks. But Overlord, which gun the VK45A would get?

    ReplyDelete
  51. Replace Maus 2 with Leopard 2 and we're good to go

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. TROLOLOLOLOL, tottaly crazy idea jamez.
      I never tire of laughing when I look at this idiotic ideas in this Troll blog.
      Laught is really cheap, thanks overtroll

      Delete
  52. am i the only one that thinks that tree will solve all the german problems especialy the heavies

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. agreed. much better and if they move 3601 down to be the tier 5 heavy it would be much better balanced with the other trees.

      Delete
  53. If this tech tree EVER comes true, WG will lose more than 50% of the players. Whats the logic of putting Tiger I and P on tier VI and kepping the JPanther and Panther on VII? And more important, Tiger II coming down to VII and Lowe that is a premium tank and costed us GOLD would be Tier VIII? Joking with things like this should be considered a crime, like the nerfs the Premium tanks have been reciving without WG telling us players that boutght them!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. More like more than 50% will play more.
      This tree would be the best thing to happen to the german tree.
      (THERE ARE MULTIPLE LÖWE BLUEPRINTS!)

      Delete
  54. Of course you will need changes in the end, but IMHO the changes cant be made all the time. When you buy a tank you expect it to be as it is. If you pay for that tank with money :D I guess the changes must be substantiated. For an old player like me - they don't mean that much as i use top tiers most of the time, but if you have started a month ago, well you have to rethink what to grind again, so many unhappy people then. And even if they change any premium to normal tank, they would give the gold back. So i think - this is a nice joke and we can all laugh about it.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Ignore all the complainers, Overlord!

    Thansk for sharing this idea with us, was fun to read and alos gives some insight to your developing processes.

    And I like most of the ideas, though some things I would change:
    I don't like Pz IV as predecessor of the Tigers. VK3601 would be more fitting in my opinion.
    VK3001P as predecessor of Ferdi? Really?!
    2nd TD line (1 open (T4 to T7), 1 closed (T4 to T10) with the split at Tier 4: JgPanzer I (T2), Filler (T3) - Split - line 1: Hetzer (T4), Stug3 (T5), JgPz4 (T6), JgPanther (T7), Elefant (T8), JgTiger (T9), StugE (T10)- line2: Marder 2 (T4), Marder 3 (T5), filler (T6), Nashorn T7)

    ReplyDelete
  56. Not bad not bad, first they would implement DW (yay) and second I will get free 14500 gold for Lowe (yes!).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't mind free six months of premium instead gold. If they put Lowe they got to give money back in some way.

      Delete
  57. Time sure passes fast. is it April again? o.0
    Jokes aside, I like this tree better.
    Though I don't see the point of having that DW as filler there. The Pz. III/IV is enough.

    Anyways, can any of you shed some light on how bullet's ballistic trajectory works in this game? I mean bullet speed and how fast it looses its penetration capability. is it different on each specific gun or is it grouped like all short barreled guns tend to lob rounds at target, while longer barreled guns shoot more straight and thats about it?

    I ask this because I have trouble comprehending how my JagdPanther's 105mm gun tends to bounce off of its target's 80mm side armor when its only about 350 Meters away.(no angling involved, straight from 90 degrees) The JP should be a sniper. right?
    Not intending to fuel the bias rage between nation's tanks, but the Soviet TDs from SU-152 and above are really destroyers. they lob over a projectile the size of a truck that won't just make a dent. I'm surprized it does not pop a mushroom cloud right away.

    Buffing and nerfing penetration and armor only will only tip the balance from one side to the other. There will always be trolls and fanboys who will change "teams" each time their favorite tank gets buffed/nerfed. Imho Tanks/Nations need more character to them.

    Take the TDs for example. The nations should be different significantly by some specific stat.
    Jerries should have long range effectiveness. Penetration values should not change but they shouldn't loose penetration over distance so fast. (imho this would ease the german players concern about penetration greatly)
    Soviets could stay the alpha dog with the current high damage and low accuracy, thus short effective range.
    The yankees could loose the turretless TD line and have more turreted wehicles along the concept of the M18 hellcat(speed and maneuverability)

    French have the autoloader already. I did not think about the Brits....flamethrower maybe?(just kidding o.0 )

    ReplyDelete
  58. I like the idea, love it actually. Wish it was implemented.

    ReplyDelete
  59. This (new) tech tree is more historically accurate in my opinion, and it will mean that Germany finally has an advantage that balances out all the weaknesses they have (slow, large and easy to hit) and make it so German tanks are something for themselves. Well armored beasts, slow and low dmg and good acc. Will make Germany stands out more,like French tanks dos.

    Just love the idea! :D

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  61. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  62. Hi Overlord,

    What is going to happen to the VK4502 AUFS. A?
    Question 1: Will it maintain the 105mm?
    question 2: What is gona happen to its mobility?

    What is gona happen to the VK3002(DB)?
    Question 3: Will it keep the current 88 or will it get a improved one.

    Oke my final QUESTION: Is this tree for real?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. answer to your final Q is in the post already ;)

      "a competely idiotic one that will never come true, I must say. Looks hilarious, though! :)"

      Though if this post is not a light minded joke (otherwise known as trolling) coming from a very serious man, One can play with the thought that our great OverLord had to read so much BS and b*tching about German tank performance, that he might just mean this as a resolution.( sort of in an "up yours" style)

      Delete
    2. Well, tree like this sounds like confesyion - russians were so good that we kicked them level up (kw3, is4), germans so bad that we got to lower their tier :D So, russian bias at the beginning of the game, actually. Case solved, attorney got no more questions ;]

      Delete
    3. @plasot

      In a why ill agree to that.

      Just think about this:
      If the tiger1 was t6. And you compair it to the kv1s (terror of tier 6) they would be rather evenly matched.

      So basically many things in this "new" tree could make it more balanced and interesting.

      Delete
  63. It's so crazy it just might work!

    There's no need to mess with the Porsche line though imho. Leave that as-is with the Tiger (P) at tier VII, following the VK3001P.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That would prolly be more fitting indeed.

      *Just add the E-100 turrent to the maus.
      *And as req for the 150mm, that the E-100 turrent needs to be mounted.

      Not like that hard's to do. And you won't get a poorly Armoured maus at t9. (if that's done you might as well implement t9 tank companies).

      Delete
  64. It's the best tree I've ever seen and exactly what I wish for since months. So, just implement!

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  65. Overlord. For once i actually agree with you. I see nothing wrong with this tech tree, and i would actually like to see it implemented into the game.

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  66. The posted tech tree is absolutely laughable. Tiger and Tiger (P) are competitive with other tier 7s, no problems there, why even knock them down to tier 6? The only thing that make sense is the Tiper (P) leads into the ferdinand (marginally), but having the ferdinand down to tier 7 is hilarious.

    The fact is the people who play german tanks happen to be a groady bunch of goofs who are too swamped into their grandiose delusions of aryan supremacy to pull their heads out of their assholes and play a little better.

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  67. @SniperWolf90: Yes, I could not agree more with your view. ("Will make Germany stands out more ..." and "..be something for themselves...")

    Overlord, what was the purpose with this thread? In my mind this is a very interesting idea that should go forward.

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  68. http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/148719-revised-german-tech-tree-based-on-overlords-proposal/page__pid__2680498#entry2680498

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  69. it's funny how a "joke" change to the German nation gets received better(in this case, most German nation players wish it was real) than the actual changes (for historical accuracy or "buffs")

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  70. I'll ignore the dev-trolling, and treat this seriously as it deserves.

    The tree, and the logic behind it, is much better than the approach German tanks have ended up with so far. As is revealed here, the only reason the heavies are at their tier is because they have access to guns that were never fit to their chassis, and in some cases (Tiger 2) were nearly the whole point of another tank's development! No wonder the poor Tiger 1 is such a horrible grind. Also, German tank armor and performance suffers at their tier placement, because of their advanced gun access, so at equal-tiered opponents, they play like turreted TDs or are forced to long-range snipe.

    Anyway, why not take this "proposed" tree, slap it together in a "testing historical balance" public test-server patch, and run it after 8.0 goes live.

    Me? I'd like my historical tanks with historical equipment, and my paper tanks with "fantasy guns". Slap the 128mm on the Panther 2 or whatnot. There's plenty of equipment variation that took place in real life. Same goes for the other countries, IMO, we just know less on average about their vehicles.

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  71. Joking on our misery - that's all you can do? First class arrogance.

    Instead you would have to place a warning on Loltraktor saying "Don't waist your time on this tree, German tanks will allways be inferior, because there have to be something to defeat with Soviet and American vehicles easily. Working as intended."

    You know the problem well: devs ruining tanks like Pz4 completely, and then make some jokes on ppl who waisted their time, and probably money to pull it out. Than offer our former tank as a premium, for more money. I can't lough with you, it's purely unfair.

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  72. It's a joke, but look! The Leopard 1 tech line is indeed coming after all! Maybe the current amount of disappointment on the German heavy tech lines will eventually balloon and WG will be forced to make drastic changes...AND THIS will be considered. Maybe not the Maus II but the idea would be:

    E-100 will mount 170mm, JPE-100 will mount the same but with more RoF and accu, and Maus will be the same but less armored and the Maus II will inherit what the Maus armor is right now + 150mm.

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  73. I like most of these ideas, Overlord. Keeping mid-tier vehicles closer to their historical armament (and opponents, in MM) sounds like a good thing. Tigers at T6, rumbling with KV's and E2's, would be a blast!

    Overall I like the idea of taking away the shoehorned-in uberguns. I'm assuming that was originally done just so tanks would have a gun able to hurt something three tiers higher. With 7.5 MM, that is no longer needed. The changes done already to assorted tanks (KV, T-34-85, T-43, planned PZIV changes) leave them still tough, but not overpowered against foes their own tier and below. KV-1S with its 122mm is probably the worst ubergun left out there now.

    German TD tier and gun changes sound OK. JPIV needed a gun with some more pen...upgraded 75/L70 sounds great. Ferdi with its armor, at tier7, would be tough. That 128 really should go. Long 88, or maybe a 105, is plenty!

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  74. http://imageshack.us/a/img254/904/mausii.jpg

    Here is the Maus II, have fun

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  75. I am doubling my VK3002DB till i got 100k exp.
    So i am wundering Overlord will that be enough?

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  76. Lets see, German heavy tanks, slow, slow rate of fire, guns lack pen, ineffective armor.

    Grinding German heavies are total waste of time.

    It's all about T110's, IS7, Batchats, and a few other situational tanks.

    -enjoy

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  77. I think it would make more sense to make the lowe tier 7 and give it the 105 L52 as it's top gun keep the tiger II at tier 8. This way you can keep the existing premium lowe at tier 8. I also think it would make more sense to make the VK3601 a tier 5 heavy give it appropriate guns for that tier and have it unlocked by the panzer III/IV and Panzer IV.

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  78. Also, by moving the tiger P down to tier 6 would it loose its 200mm front armor? seems like that might be a little OP if not.

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  79. Seriously though some of these changes might be too much but please, please seriously consider moving the tiger down to tier 6.

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  80. Come on, this tree is a joke, right?

    We all agree - and we've all been complaining - about the lack of heavy tanks in the German tree in tiers 5 and 6 with regard to other nations... But as far as I can remember, the discussions were about turning the VK3601H into a heavy tank (because it is one indeed, it has nothing of a Medium), not about decreasing the Tier of the Tigers !!! I admit that these tanks require skilled drivers to be performant in their current Tier 7 (where they are statistically outgunned by any other T7 tank except maybe the AMX M4 '45), but they would nonetheless make nonsense as T6s...
    Likewise, moving the KT and VK (A) to Tier 7 would either 1/ mean further nerfing of these already nerfed tanks, or 2/ would make these tanks too powerful in T7. As a personal note, please don't move anywhere the Ausf A !! I'm fed up with having to sell tanks I like and intend to keep just because they are always the ones nerfed by WG at some point and become quite useless in battle afterwards...
    Let's move further, and this is a huge worry to me and I think most tank owners : if Lowe is integrated into the German tree, how will you refund me the 12 500 gold I invested in it to have a PREMIUM tank? It's a great credit farmer but it won't act the same at all if integrated as a regular tank, therefore I hope you have thought of a FAIR solution of this issue, otherwise expect a storm ingame and on the forums about mad Lowe owners who will feel literally screwed.
    Further : Maus in Tier 9 ?!? Are you guys mad? This thing is incredibly hard to kill, do you SERIOUSLY expect an IS-8 or an AMX 50-120 kill a Maus in a 1-on-1 fight?? Please go back to the real world, it doesn't make any kind of sense, it would ruin the game.
    Last cnsideration about heavies, where the hell does Maus II come from? Another invention by WG, like the T25/2? What's the purpose of this tank? The reason of its existence? Does it ever mean anything? This sentence sounds like a complaint but it's actually a real serious question (you won't answer for sure but I ask anyway).

    Finally, how please do you fit in your tree the 2nd German TD line WG promised almost 2 years ago, featuring Marder III, Nashorn, Sturer Emil? Why not integrate into it the Ferdinand (which therefore finds itself outside any other tank line)? Why abandon the original Sturmpanzer E100 project?

    Thank you for all these answers - if you ever find courage to answer to this post :P

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    Replies
    1. You got trolled. Your response is proof enough.

      Delete
  81. Overlord did you know...
    That German STEEL WAS BETTER. (By production technology not ingrediens, but those too at the beginning)

    So you NEED to check tests against ONE kind of steel.

    Seen somewhere tests where Russian engineers compared both materials. Can look it up if needed (eg. you really think about changing those guns/pens).

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  82. *Compared it by shooting to german tank.... :)

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