Purpose of this blog

Dmitry Yudo aka Overlord, jack of all trades
David Lister aka Listy, Freelancer and Volunteer

Friday, March 30, 2012

[WoT] Bailout of 7.2

Think, everyone or almost everyone has already acquainted with the changes in WoT game economy introduced in 7.2. They can be found eg here (EU). So it's clear "what", but still may be not clear "why" or even "why the hell?!".

The initial economy balance tuned at open beta stage, the one the game went live with, was affected greatly, and mostly in a negative way, by multiple changes in game mechanics (getting rid of "teleporting", tweaks in penetration mechanics, HE-mechanics, hitboxes changes etc etc), changes in vehicle specs (buffs&nerfs), introduction of new tanks and some other factors. Most of the time such kind of impact was hardly predictable.

As a result of the above the economy balance as of 7.1.(1) moved quite far from the designated values designed and set initially. The situation wasn't gamebreaking, but it really hurt and this has to be fixed sooner or later. So we have scheduled the major changes for 7.2 and adjusted the following.

For tanks:
  • income per battle
  • repair costs
  • research costs
  • price in credits

For modules:
  • research costs
  • price in credits
  • tier
Summarizing the changes, the total effect that may not be obvious for players at first glance - the gross influx of credits into the game for all tiers is increased, which along with reduced research costs for most of the tanks and modules will lead in most of the case to the decrease of overall number of battles to get the highest tier, ie reduce the grind. See the picture below, that characterizes the current (7.1) and patched (7.2) credit incomes of heavy tanks in game for standard account.


The same charts for other classes are practically the same barring a few minor differences, eg we alleviated the reduction for high tier TDs for the only reason of their not very high percentage in game, comparing to other classes.

Especially, the grind will be less significant at tiers 1-4, now for standard account the experience and credits are earned simultaneously, so approximately at the time the next vehicle can be researched, there is enough credits to purchase it.

At tiers 5-8 there are changes in both directions with the majority of tweaks aimed at reduction of the current profitability rates. Vehicles of these tiers went too far from the designated values. However we still do stick to the concept that tier 4-6 vehicles (3-5 for SPGs) are the most profitable ones. See the chart for meds:


Even with the reductions made at mid tiers, taking all tiers into account the changes are in the black. Comparing to our basic concept that tanks should on average break even for standard account at tier 7, it's not true strictly true at the moment. All tier 7 ones do MAKE money on average in 7.2. So the initial strategy was adjusted here.

At high tiers there mostly were "plus" changes. Top vehicles, including tier 10 heavies and tier 8 spgs, have become too unprofitable and needed to be buffed economically a bit. That wouldn't allow them to make money on a regular basis on standard account of course.

What else should be highlighted:
  • there was no income nerfs for premium tanks;
  • preferential mode for high tier TDs;
  • a great number of discrepancies have been fixed, including abnormal research costs for tanks and modules (eg 105 mm Gun T5E1, 8,8 cm KwK 36 L/56), tiers of modules, etc.
  • there was no ammo cost rebalancing which is still might be necessary.
Economy is really a long and complex story, that can be flamed talked about endlessly, just like balance in general. Hope, I have cleared the things a bit.

89 comments:

  1. Anyway, I think, that increasing Pz VI Tiger repair cost, that is already damn high sucks too much, than income increase warms heart.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sure thing, for a particular vehicle, eg Easy-Eight it may be regarded as totally negative change, while the whole picture should be taken into account.

      Delete
    2. Why dont u increase the income of tiger if its team won the battle instead.

      Delete
  2. I did not know that in addition to the individual tweaks there was an underlying universal income buff. Thank you for that info.

    As I said before, the why is the critical element we've always been missing, thank you for sharing.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Ammo cost does need to be balanced at some point. As that makes the biggest difference on high tier for income/loss of credits.

    ReplyDelete
  4. really should have given us a real heads up as to when this Update was to come out, you boned alot of us American heavy drivers hard! I think some of us should at least be given the option to have the t34 if we are within 100k exp ...its been a long grind its unfair for you to give advanced notice. Most of us figured this wouldnt drop till April

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. the changes of the American Heavy Line was announced a loooooooooong time ago. you had plenty of time to sort it out. I got my T30 in November just so it can be ready for this update. please be reasonable.

      Delete
    2. True that, almost 11 months ago. Shame on delivering that long.

      Delete
    3. I am, I busted my nuts for a month got all the way to 20k exp from the t34 with no gold! I only joined in Dec..I think I should at least be given the chance to get the t34 they fucked me over when they closed the server to upload this patch, i had ground out over 90k exp in a day! I should get something outta this!

      Delete
    4. i`m sorry to gear that but the rules are rules. u can not bend them for some ppl because then you will have to bend them for all people.

      On behalf of all of us here i would like to welcome you to the game but other than that no1 can do anything else for you really ...

      though you can be proud of the fact that you managed to get so far up in one month as most others didn`t managed to do it not even in 5-6 months ;)

      Delete
    5. The anouncement was a long time ago. The patch was suppose to orginally be in early feb. They gave you 2 more months to work on it. By the way 7.3 is russians and was supose to be begining of march. I tld my dad to go for these rather then american.

      Delete
    6. Sotuhern, I started in January for this game. When i found out about 7.2 I grind n got my T34 last week. And I probably do 20 battles on weekdays and slightly more on weekends with win n losses. So you probably not grinding hard enough. Still can try the IS4 before 7.3 although I don't know when that will be an if I can make it in time.

      Delete
    7. If all goes well, 7.3 will come out at the end of April.

      Delete
  5. What will happen to those who are going to get their next tier tanks and after those tanks become down from up tier?

    ReplyDelete
  6. There was plenty of time given to grind the American line. I was informed of it back in July of 2011. They also gave us quite a bit of notice on it going back to their release schedule.

    My question is if the extra experience that TD drivers used to get upgraded equipment would be given back, either on the tank or as free xp.


    Also a follow up, I noticed that the 120mm guns for the new American tier 10 is going to fire a round not compatible with the T34s main gun, some of us bought gold rounds in the T34 expecting to use them in the T110E5, or we bought extra gold rounds for the T30 to use until this was patched. In my case since at the time it was my only Tier 10 heavy I bought several during the last sale. If I had known the exact date of patch I wouldn't have wasted the gold on it. Is there going to be any compensation for those of us who bought gold on the T34 and T30 so we can equip the T110 with gold shells?

    ReplyDelete
  7. IMO tier7 is not profitable at all. Actually it's far less profitable than tier 8.
    Tier6 isn't that profitable either.
    Now both tier6-7 will be even worse.

    Tier5 is the most profitable (without a premium account) by far. Specially the KV that has a better gun than most tier6 tanks. (I have a KV, it's my money farmer. It's freaking overpowered for its tier, easily comparable with tier6 tanks.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's actually not correct. Tier 5 is the most profitable of all, then go tier 4 and tier 6. Plus all tanks of tier 7 are ON AVERAGE profitable. Which doesn't of course mean that every player (eg 40% win ratio) can make money of them.

      Delete
    2. It's very easy to make money at Tier 7, and I made money slowly and steadily running Tier 9's on a standard account. You just need to be doing enough damage to make it pay. The T25 prints money and the T29's not far behind. Tier 6 is the same, my KV-3 never loses money. I welcome the changes as a way of smoothing out the economy.

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    3. I find that the tier 6 shermans normal always bring in profit. While the tier 5 scouts normally are lucky to break even.

      Delete
    4. best tip for making money is "don not mis a single shot"

      concentrate on that and you will do allot better

      Delete
  8. Frankly,

    You can tweak the numbers all year long, it still does not account for the imbalances of credit penalties for ingame violations (accidental or otherwise), and the cost of running tanks at their maximum capability. (We all just buy a premium tank for that and hope for a profit).

    The currency of the game still requires gold inputs and that makes sense from a company viability point of view. It was never about the cost of the 'grind' to achieve higher tier tanks. You can always spend more time thugging it out in the battle. The economics of the game still unfortunately skew to a $$ input to be sustainable if you play above the casual playing level.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree on the penalty part completely. It's still to be tweaked.

      Delete
    2. Pants - if you're playing above casual then personally I believe you should have a currency input into the game. If no one did there would be no game, and I'm happy to contribute funds for a game I spend a large amount of my gaming life enjoying.

      Delete
    3. I agree with nynja here, if you play allot, you should pay.

      Servers and games dont come free, and i dont feel like paying more so the freeloaders will have a easier time in the higher tiers.

      Delete
  9. if this patch didnt go thru i would have to play 70-80 battles. and thats how many i have overall. would have taken me weeks to go tier 4

    ReplyDelete
  10. Overlord, you're back!! Hell yes!!

    Even though the ol' M4 took a slight credit nerf, my prized M7 MT made it through unscathed so I am happy as a clam :D.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Ovi, are there any changes in MM with 0.7.2. (apart from Churchill and others change). Some people claim that we have MM 2.0, but there is no info in patch notes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Only the MM spread reduction for KV-220, Churchill and T-14 was made. The new MM system didn't make it to 7.2. Some rework is needed.

      Delete
    2. You are best mythbuster in WoT :)

      Delete
    3. Is there any chance we "the players" can get any say in how the MM should behave? Of course we don't know every metric you've created for the MM, but there's millions of hours of gaming experience out there that you can draw benefit from.

      I myself would like to see a ladder system within each type and tier, instead of a reduced tier spread for the 10 first matches (some people never learn to swim, and should stay in the shallow end of the pool). If you've ever played Starcraft 2 I think you'd understand what I am trying to explain. Each time you started a new tank, there'd be a new ladder for you to climb, always fighting with and against people around your own step on the ladder.

      Delete
  12. Overlord, could I ask, why wasn't Chaffee buffed like his counterparts in German and Russia techtrees?(T-50-2, VK2801) Especially, when intial plan(first announcment of specific changes on specific tanks) was even to nerf it's income(just Chaffs), which is even now mostly non-profitable?

    On other side, I'm glad you're back on-blog :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All tier five lights are designed to be non-profitable for standard account on average. VK and T-50 were deeper in the red in 7.2, so we decided to adjust them.

      Delete
  13. Thanks, that's exactly the kind of post I enjoyed reading here.

    Q1: Profitability chart for mediums doesn't take ammo costs into account, am I right?

    Q2: Can we get these sexy profitability charts for other types of vehicles? Pretty please :)

    Q3: "[P]referential mode for high tier TDs" - what does it mean? Did you mean only what you wrote some paragraphs above that ("we alleviated the reduction for high tier TDs") or maybe there's something else?

    ...and since I didn't tell that yet: great to have you back! :)

    Thanks,
    Trent (EU)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. Nope, everything is included. Repair and ammo costs as well.

      2. They are very close to the posted charts. Can do it a bit later.

      2. Not only this. We have set both TD and tank guns on equal basis, usually making TD versions cheaper. And overall TD research costs were lowered most.

      Delete
    2. I assume those charts are normalised to show income per battle (so it doesnt matter how many tanks are on specific tier or ow many players drives them)?

      Delete
  14. Disappointed with the Tiger changes. A lot of HP means a lot of repair costs, and now they're even worse. The already-backbreaking grind to the Tiger II is now even worse...

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  15. Great post! Thanks for this informaiton, happy too get a broader overview!

    ReplyDelete
  16. Little off topic but... With the new garage stats rework in 7.2 will chocolate/coffee etc... be able to increase the power-to-weight ratio and thus increase acceleration of a tank (e.g. 50Bs power-to-weight ratio is 1200/62.21 = 19.29 w/o any or consumables, but with coffee it becomes 19.29*1.1 = 21.22)? I'll assume that this does not change the value of the engine horse power in the process.

    Oh and since your doing the rework of the garage stats, why not have a value next to them in brackets showing the modified value with the current module/equipment/consumable setup of the tank [i.e. 6.05(7.3) for the T110 w/o the best setup and with]?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. Gold consumables do affect acceleration. That's correct.

      2. Yes, that's planned.

      Delete
  17. Thanks for the info. Nice changes all in all, but there is 1 line that boils my blood:
    "That wouldn't allow them to make money on a regular basis on standard account of course. "
    Its a bit angering to hear that you make the Tier 10s intentionally close to unplayable for standard players, who don't want to farm their ass off on lower tanks...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's a forced measure needed for the general game balance. Otherwise everyone would drive a tier tier 9/10 tank all the time.

      Delete
  18. my 2 cents on the economy changes: it might be "in the black" overall percentage wise, but if you really look at the numbers, a 50% inrease on that 1000 credits I earned in my Tier 1 tank is more than cancelled out by the 10% increase in repair cost and 5% profit loss on my Tier 7. Just WG forcing more players to buy premium just to play the game above tier 6-7, since apparently multi-million dollar/month profits isnt enough :/

    The only positive part of these changes is Top Tier tanks finally getting the ability to get played without it crushing your credit bank, a much needed change I'm sure everyone here agrees with. I enjoyed playing my IS-7 and Patton, but hated having to farm 1-2 games worth of credits on my SU-85 each time I didn't get 3 kills and a win.

    Didn't make much sense to reward players for achieving the nice goal of getting a top tier tank, just by punishing them for playing it. Only took WG a year to figure out, no worries

    ReplyDelete
  19. Haha, just realised something. If these charts are for heavies and mediums, why do they start at tier 1?

    This doesn't mean we'll get tier 1 mediums and tier 1-3 heavies, does it? :P

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. wargaming just trying to trick the thick people into thinking they are really giving us a credit buff, when all they are doing is getting more people into those mid tier tanks quicker where the premium accounts are more valuable and desireable, while nerfing the credit gain of those same mid tier vehicles to make getting high tier (8+) impossible to obtain without premium.

      Yayyyy backdoor money grabbing schemes!

      Delete
    2. These charts are probably for lines. Mediums and heavy lines have lighter tanks in their begginings. Fox example in German heavy line (the one with Maus as last tank) you have also mediums like PzIV or VK3001P and lights like PZ35, PZ38 and PZ38na.

      Delete
    3. That's correct Szturmi, there are no tier 1 heavies, so all lines start based on the current tier 1 tanks. No tricks here.

      Delete
  20. off topic:

    dear overlord i was wondering a little bit about some premium tanks..

    more specificly the captured 1s.
    some of there models is already ingame i gues like captured t34 and and captured panther.

    i was just wondering if this kind of tanks will be avilable soon or whats the eta of those?

    best regards


    p.s yea my english is bad sry

    p.p.s if the captured kv is the 1 with the pz4 gun i gues it will look pretty cool :P

    ReplyDelete
  21. @Overlord

    there are some info regarding Brothers in Arms perk that say it works even after a member of the crew got injured (still is)
    can you confirm or infirm this?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If one of the crew members is injured, the perk should not work.

      Delete
    2. well .. it does, I've tested it

      Delete
  22. Thanks for sharing, Overlord. This is exactly what I was wondering about. :)

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hi Overlord,

    and thanks you are back!
    I made a exel-calculation once (version 6.7) with avarge income without premium account:
    Tiger: ~8.700
    Tiger2: ~1.900
    JgPanther: ~ 11.100
    Hummel: ~12.900
    Type59: ~34.500

    So Tiger 2 is still playable without a premium account (BTW I love it <3 ). This should be transferable to all other tanks.

    With 7.2 also research costs are balanced. I never understood why 704 is so cheap (~150k XP) and JgTiger so expensive (175k XP). Now its turned around and now I think its turned in the right way.

    OT:
    The next step in development could be the map-rotation. With the replay-function its easy to proof that some maps played more often than on others. And that it also is addicted to the tank you play.
    e.g. T29: 11% Ensk. USA: 8,9% Ensk... but it should be around 4.5% every map on avarage.
    I mentioned that cause some dev said: No, tanks and maps are not linked. And somthing like: Every map have the same probability, wich is defenitly NOT true.

    greetings and see you on the battlefield,
    par4no1d

    ReplyDelete
  24. Hello Overlord,
    Many thanks for your detailed explanations. Keep up the excellent work. :)
    Greetings from Canada.

    ReplyDelete
  25. this is one of the best change of 7.2 :)

    ReplyDelete
  26. 2nd question (a lot more complex) for Overlord:

    something is really off about IS-7 and how/what got to live server compared to test #1 to #3

    on test #1 IS-7 was really easy penetrable by various guns
    on test#2 things improved
    on test#3m IS-7 got a lot bouncier

    but that's not the real issue
    the real issue is that IS-7 from live server (now) is not the same tank me an my friends tested on test#3, especially on the ammo rack side of things
    we spent about 30minutes shooting APs and APCRs at eachother's ammo rack spots (except those in the turret, only those inside the hull) and try to damage it - we did not succeed
    now, after a few matches in random, boom, I got hit in the ammo rack by a IS-4

    what the hell is going on? did anyone else tested IS-7 on test server
    to me, it looks like the IS-7 that got on the live server is the same that we had on test#1 and not the test#2 or test#3

    Overlord, what version of IS-7 got on 0.7.2 live server?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hi. I've noticed that since 0.7.2, the US 105mm howitzer seems much less effective against high-tier targets. Is this due to the HE nerf against spaced armour.

    ReplyDelete
  28. When we see clan icon on tanks?

    ReplyDelete
  29. HI
    Q) we all know that Eagle eye dont work in arty mode.
    dose Designated perk Target work with arty mode?

    also dose Snap Shot skill work for gun movement for turret less tanks (eg; TD arty)?

    ReplyDelete
  30. hmm. i have 5 tanks. 4 tier 6 and 1 tier 7. and they all got nerfed when it comes to money making.Damn you wargaming .Good thing i spend my money on aion :)

    ReplyDelete
  31. Hey , Overlord , you should definately encourage guys at development to rebalance the ammo costs as there indeed is an issue which makes the credit economy unfair towards the drivers of specific vehicles like the T-54 , any french using 100mm ,KT.(I realise that these vehicles have recieved better buffs because of their higher cost of ammunition but this indirect way of doing things is , as can be expected , ineffective.)
    Thanks for reading.

    ReplyDelete
  32. hi

    i don't know if it's the right place here, but i try it, on the eu server should be the clan logo's available with the patch 7.2.
    so patch 7.2 is there, but no clanlogo on the tanks are avilable.
    and i ask in the german forum and looked in the english part but no info at all.
    so now i hope, overlord you can give us some information whats happen.

    thx a lot
    matthias

    ReplyDelete
  33. I got the solution for the economic balance!!

    Do the same as what you do with the daily exp.

    But now also with credits first time double it!?

    I almost never played standard acount cuz i alreaddy bin told in the beginning that it is rlly hard at sum point!

    And whats the purpose of converting exp with gold if u dont have the credits to buy the tank u put all that gold in ....

    Ofcourse i know u just gotta grind sum more gold into credits not rlly fair is it .... so yeah easy solution double exp and credits first battle of the day make everyone happy with it !

    Unless there is a rlly good excuse for it i dont see why it shouldnt be aplied

    ReplyDelete
  34. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  35. Now I know your name (and where you live) Dmitry.

    WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow, it must be one of the biggest achievements in your life...

      Delete
  36. Seriously i thought they would also fix the team unbalance. For me, i just come 80-90% for every each random battle on the losing team. That means constant losing and no improve enjoyment.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Overlord, can you comment on this, please...

    I have unlocked a few T9 tanks in the last 2 weeks (E75, Patton, E50, JagdTiger, Obj 212)
    now I see that I could have waited for this patch and saved a lot of exp... at least 100.000
    i am really PISSED because you didn't mencioned that in the forum or other place.
    the reduction of exp needed is IMPORTANT information... so is the cost of the vehicles..
    now we should be compensated for this lack of CONSIDERATION on your part....
    I'm sure that I am not the only one in this situation.
    this wasn't a last minute decision, I'm sure...
    couldn't you just say: "the Costs and exp needed to research vehicles will change (reduced) with update 7.2. Stay tuned!"

    thx

    ReplyDelete
  38. Overlord what was the reason behind incresing the research cost of the tier 9 105mm gun for Patton to almost 70000 experience?!?!?
    Tier 10 gun on tanks and TD-s have less exp cost than this. I just dont get it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The american MT line was cheaper in terms of exp costs than the other ones.

      Delete
    2. So that's the problem?

      SU-100-->SU-152 research cost: 31500 XP
      Jagdpanzer IV-->Jagdpanther research cost: 60500

      Researching the Jagdpanther costs 92% more than the SU-152, not talking about how badly the Jagdpanzer IV sucks.

      Delete
    3. Considering exp costs we take into account not only modules but also the cost of the whole tech line (eg, TD).

      Delete
  39. hey overerlord, you said "I will do my best providing the information on how and why we do things..."
    I cant see any reasons why you changed the accuracy of all guns. Did the guns get their old accuracy back with all "accuracy-skills" from the driver and gunner???
    This changes hit the german tanks really hard .... their strong point was the lang range ability, but T II has 0,34cm or Ausf B. has 0,38cm. These are major changes in my eyes. Now the USA has the most accurat gun of all T9 Heavys. At last why did you nerf the 12,8cm more than the russian 130mm?
    *excuse my "superb" grammar*

    I'm glad to see you back online

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There was no accuracy change. Read this http://worldoftanks.eu/news/1641-about-72-update-tanks-parameters-and-qualification-badges/

      Delete
  40. ovi any word as to bigworld's 2.0 release and/or 64bit/multi-core support

    ReplyDelete
  41. Q: What is with clan tags on vehicles? What is with option to repair automatically one damaged module with small repair kit?

    Thank you in advance

    ReplyDelete
  42. How much does player statistics affect their net profit?

    I'd be interested in seeing two charts: One that includes data only from players with <45% win ratio, and one that includes data only from players with >53% win ratio.

    Based on personal experience I think that the most profitable tier for the more skilled premium account owners is not tier 5 but rather a tier between 6-8. I find my Hellcat, Tiger, and panther II make more credits on average than my KV for example.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I do not know if that observation(best profitability above tier 5) is due to me simply using a premium account or if higher than average statistics are the reason.(Or some combination of both)

      Delete
  43. Are you aware of the 'black earth' bug after 7.2 patch for ATI graphic cards?

    We are hundreds of players that can't play for two weeks now... we don't know if there are any planned solution or if we should wait until 7.3

    :(

    Regards

    ReplyDelete
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