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Dmitry Yudo aka Overlord, jack of all trades
David Lister aka Listy, Freelancer and Volunteer

Wednesday, January 22, 2014

[WoT] Nation vs Nation

Well, guess, you've heard that. What do you think of the idea - having factional battles in World of Tanks (and may be some other our games). For now, as a part of random battles - USSRvsGermanyvsUSvs...

Will this give us a definitive answer: are the devs biased or not and which tanks are the best? :)

73 comments:

  1. some nations will have a hard time wining such battles - brits, anyone

    others, will fully obliterate the opposing team - thinking of all those french auto loaders from tier 8 and up

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  2. Do you know if they are sticking with the original idea of balancing tanks with varying numbers (like a 3xTiger vs 15x t-34s?)

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    1. That's for historical battles which are a separate big mode.

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    2. Phelps, am I reading correctly what you said? You think with the current setup 3 tiger vs 15t-34 is fair? ... lets just forget this

      Question here on historical battle mode: Tanks will have historical settings or the current imaginary ones?
      - Talking about Tiger with 1km firing range and t-34 with 500m effective range. Hope if the name is going to be "historical" battle, then something like this will be considered.

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    3. Specs will be the same. We are not creating another game. Setups will be close to historical, along with team rosters.

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  3. I'm more interested with the new encounter on redshire. I think they arty on south side will have easier time than arty on north side. I don't like that.

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  4. Personally, I think factional battles are going to bring a breath of fresh air to WoT playing tactics. The tactics that tanks assume in a factional are likely to differ substantially from a normal random.

    Could be interesting in some cases, for example I can see Brits at high tier using TD's to push, whilst the rest of the team skirmishes. I could see French teams abandoning defense altogether, cruising around unpredictably. Soviet teams attacking like a jackhammer. Could be interesting.

    ...or tactics might not evolve at all and certain nations will be repeatedly crushed, gaining the mode disfavour amongst some users.

    Should be intersting to see in either case...

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    Replies
    1. That's my thinking as well. The disposition can change substantially comparing to regular random battles.

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    2. On the other hand, when all the not-coöperating players turned the national battles off, we might see tactic after a while. Maybe not at the start indeed.

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  5. I think that the 'muricans will come out ahead on this one. They are the most well rounded nation. The Russians are all armour and close range guns while the Germans are mostly snipers that will be screwed when the Russians push into them. The British at higher tiers will need to hide behind their AT units. It'll definitely be interesting to see if one nation comes out clearly on top.

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  6. Sounds surely interesting, but without tests hard to say what will be the autcome. I am afraid that it would need different balancing because in some tiers some nations can totally prevaile thanks to some really strong tanks (and such other balancing is rather impossible). Hard to imagine how Germans with Pz IV will stop teams of KV-1 or with VK's wolfpacks of KV-1S. Also hard will be to beat US teams full of T-29 or T-32. Now balance of these tanks takes into account that they meet the same models in enemy teams, so for example power of KV-1s is limited by the fact that usually enemy also has theses vehicles. Also good luck fighting against team full of AT-2...

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  7. Will platoons be able to enter these battles as long as all of its tanks belong to the same nation?

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    1. I'd really like to know this as well.

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    2. SerB allready answered this1:
      Q: “Will it be possible to appear with a platooned Tiger in a national battle Soviet team?” A: “You consider us to be retards or something…”

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    3. Shannon Phalen,

      as far as I remember - yes. Provided all platoon members use tanks of the same faction.

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  8. It is an interesting idea, but with upcoming historical battles it is a bit redundant. Balance could be a bit difficult

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    1. That's a relatively easy way to increase diversity of gameplay quickly. Historical battles require much more work. They are also coming.

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  9. I have seen historical battles on the NA forum but never as a separate mode. if you do not intend to provide historical battles outside of the informal forum manner I say go for it. Even if you do I would still like to see it .

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    Replies
    1. Sure thing, we do want to have historical battles in-game.

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  10. Not sure about the oft quoted "Russian bias" but ultimately one nationality WILL come out on top. All I can say for sure just now is, it won't be the Brits.

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  11. The concept is... interesting. Balance will be interesting as well.
    For example at Tier 4 and below the Brits will wipe the floor with everyone. Past Tier 4 they're not going to stand a chance. Or at least that's how I see it now, but we know how much the RNG can provide surprising results. So that view might change.

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    Replies
    1. You sure? In the tier 3-4 range I see agile sniping tanks with good camo and viewrange rule (T40, SU-85b, FCM36 PAK40) and none of these are really british.

      However I may be proven wrong.

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    2. Agile? FCM36 PAK40 and agile??
      Dont think we have the same tank in mind 0_o

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  12. A nice idea. I like the fact that you can turn it off, if you do not want it. However I fear that many people will turn it off playing british tanks or french tanks at low levels.

    But overall it adds some historical touch and I will definitely try it out (I only deactivated attack mode as I find this to be very unbalanced often).

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    Replies
    1. I would still love to see WR across different tiers. Might find some surprising results.

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    2. Yes, this will be an interesting experiment which may yield some unexpected results.

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  13. At certain tiers and maps it wont work.

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  14. I don't think any nation is "the best", but some nations are definitely more noob friendly than others (yes, Russia) while others are pretty unforgiving.

    We'll have to see how it goes.

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  15. This will come up randomly if you have the x in your setup like encounter and assault?

    Will you get maps from the other modes or just normal cap base maps?

    Will there be an option to play this in companies or is just randoms planned for now?

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    Replies
    1. Afaik this is a random game mode only and the probabilities are
      40% standard
      20% encounter
      20% assault
      20% national

      If you turn one option off, the others grow accordingly. I have turned assault off so my probabilities will be 50%/25%/25%.

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    2. If you turn one of, will it be 50% 25, 25? Or will it be 47-27-27 (the 20% split equal) One of the devs said, if you turn off encounter and assault, it will be 60-40.

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    3. The probability is split equally I guess not the percentage points.

      Before it is twice as likely to get standard as every single other mode and, with 50/25/25 it is like that too. If you switch off all but one extra mode I guess it will be 66/33.

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  16. I'll be turning it off the moment the patch goes live. The matchmaker is already way too random. I don't want to give it another way to hand out wildly imbalanced teams.

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    1. Perfect example: Today I've platooned with my friend (2 hellcats). We were the only tier 6s in the whole battle - not just in our team. Rest of the 2 teams were tier7 and 8. Just to support your point Draco.

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    2. It's personal. MMing doesn't like you.

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    3. can you please try to explain that weird MM behavior? I saw that a lot while platooning with clan mates up to the point where played certain tiers not in platoons because we kept getting these strange MM like being the only tier 4 (no scouts) in matches with only tier 6 or being the only tier 5 (no scouts) in tier 7 games.
      Like MM trying hard to rig those matches....

      @ topic
      with some tanks I will definitely try it. With some others it won´t be fun at all. Tier 6 russian teams will be OP as hell, they will roflstomp anything in above 90% of all matches.

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    4. How about that:
      Two days again I did 20 games and was top tier in all but exactly two of them. I didn't complain.
      Yesterday I did 12 random games and was bottom tier in all but one of them. ***MM IS RIGGED OMG OMG OMG!!!11!!! OVAHLOD EXPLAIN***

      Uhm, the whole picture is that in the last two days I did 32 games and was about 60% top tier and 40% bottom tier. Seems to work.

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    5. Michael don't be a jerk/ass (ehichever fits you better) !! If you have good games then OK, but keep it to yourself !! If oters have problem with MM with specific tanks then you dont need to read them or comment them!! Skip the comment move to the next entry. No one need trolls like you when the issue is serious...

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    6. and Overlord..., seriusly?:
      "OverlordJanuary 23, 2014 at 10:42 PM
      It's personal. MMing doesn't like you. "

      Try adressing issues seriously if you are runnig a webpage like this.
      You are taling with Wargaming's customers here, not with your old schoolmates or colleagues. If you are running an official "forum" (open conversation - yes it is a Blog i know!) like this then please start taking issues seriously! You are Wargaming's voice and word here. If you taking problems this lightly that reflecty Wargaming's attitude as well...

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    7. No one needs people stating the same crap, that simply shows they have no clue about statistics, over and over and over again in each and every topic they stumble upon.

      These are the real trolls, disguising as people with "serious issues" when all they want is to complain about things they don't understand and don't want to understand.

      My WR is 54% in solo random pubs while grinding tanks. Tanks that I like (like Hellcat) are over 60% winrate in almost 1000 games. MM has never been an issue for me, sometimes you win, sometimes you loose, rarely is MM ever the case for either.

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    8. Ok Michael. whatever...

      Overlord, please anwer my question/adress the issue I raised in the first post!
      Many thanks!

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    9. Can happen in some cases. Need to see the entire team rosters. MMing balances not individual tanks, but teams.

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    10. So it is possible, that one team has 1-2 tier8s (for example) and the other has only tier9s and 10s because their point-weight in mm allows it. That was all I needed to know. Thanks!

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    11. Michael, learn to read Sandor and me, we were both talking about platooning, not single random games. That is sth completely different then solo randoms. When I play solo randoms in low tiers I don´t get those weird MM results, they only happen to PLATOONS!

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  17. I would really like faction battles. As well as historical battles.

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  18. It will be fun to try out this mode. I believe it's a good idea.

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  19. Would these matches follow the same random battle tier structure? or would they be set like 7v7 at tier 8?

    Mainly as I think that right now team battles 7v7 at tier 8 lacks variety. It would be nice to be able to do any tier 7v7 as well as historical battles or Nation vs. Nation.

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    1. If you have the credits for tier 10 then sure. But there are plenty of other tanks in the other tiers that would be good to play grouped together. :)

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  20. I do hope that extreme teams will not be allowed to enter:
    - full T57 team
    - full Foch (tier10) team
    - full Is7 team

    and also the numbres of these tanks should be limited as well. We do not want to see 2 platoon with full of T57 or Foch running around.

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    1. Stating IS-7 and Foch 155 in the same sentence shows that you have no clue.

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    2. Trolling again? If you cant drive Is7 or Foch 15 so you have bad gamesand think they are not OP, then do not comment on this - Learn to play with them as many players did and you see their potential! This forum does not need forum trolls like you, commenting every topic you see...

      Issue is still the same. OP platoons/teams sould be banned from the beggining.

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    3. No, they shoudln't.

      If a tank is OP (and T57heavy and IS-7 are not) it needs to be balanced. Preventing Platoons of these tanks to enter the game is utter crap and not adressing any problem in an efficient manner.

      And no, I have very nice ratings (WN8) on my tanks, want to compare?

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    4. This online 'dick-o-meter'-ing might be your style but not mine. I am a bit more mature than this. And ofc you are right in everything in your own little perfect world. Now go to school please!

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    5. Thanks for proing my point. You just made my day! :D

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    6. Overlord,

      Please reply to my concern I've raised. Or just tell us whether these team will be allowed or not.
      Many thanks for YOUR reply!

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    7. Sure thing they will be allowed. Why?

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    8. Full T75 team would rape any UK team, due to the weakness hull on every UK heavy tank. Sure UK team would have the benefit of the bigger Hp pool, yet the enormous amount of damage of the drum-clips would clearly be overwhelming (I'd say).

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    9. I have similar concerns. I did hear someone chatting about the test server, apparently 'Russian bias' isnt something we need to worry about The French, with a full deck of autoloaders, simply swept them aside.

      I also agree with the point that Wn7 ratings at the like being used as metrics to solve arguments is getting old. These 3rd party ratings systems are fundamentally flawed and honestly should probably be banned for what they do to the game. Ragequitting primadonnas are their fault. Bad players grinding base capture points and otherwise acting stupid in order to groom their 3rd party stats are their fault. Good players seal clubbing at low tiers and otherwise playing badly (remember that playing at low tiers IS playing badly to XVM - for the highest rating you must play your highest tier vehicle at all times to get your averag damage up! No time for fun!) just to reduce their rating (so they don't get shot first - which by itself is appallingly meta-game) is their fault.

      Every time I load up a match and see some teenager crying about a 39% win rate (which often turns out to be utter horse poop) or poking fun at someone's grandad (who has just as much right to enjoy the game as they do and has no idea what they're talking about,) I'm noting it all down personally as the direct fault of 'the cult of XVM.'

      A while ago SerB answered a player complaining about XVM winrates by saying, "Uninstall XVM, it's all in your head." That's a fair point, but I've got one for him, "Ban XVM, it's destroying the community spirit of your player base."

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    10. Starlight - from the second paragraph it has nothing to do with the question I have raised. How does xvm relates to OP teams - in the new game mode?.. Please try to write things which are related with the curernt topic and do not lead the conversation in to a completely other direction.

      Back to the original topic please!

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    11. Vehicle balance has never been tailored to cater for national battles (same nation teams), so we might get some unexpected results which will require changing/fixing. This applies to particular vehicles and particular nation vs nation opposition.

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    12. But that is why the test server and extended and monitored long pre-release test period exists. Makes sense.

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    13. If you don't like the mode, turn it off, it's that easy.

      Not everything can be and must be totally balanced to be enjoyable.

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    14. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    15. Michael,
      I know you have the urge to comment on everything, but i haven't said that i dont like the idea or the game mode.

      I just dont want to see a game mode which is not tested and set properly. that is all...

      Seriosuly Michael.. need to work on (Overlord pelase forgive me for the following expression) "attention whore" issue.

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  21. Will be fun if implemented properly.

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  22. Overlord this might go very very wrong i personally like this but for some idiots this might turn into a racist thing and with england is having more support tanks some nations will just dick about how they beated others (sorry for my english)

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  23. Clan get 15 wtE100 presses battle at the same time late at night. GL fighting that.

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  24. The nation battle will be so interesting to see. I for one think it will massively magnify the imbalance between vehicles that has so far been masked by having the MM attempt to have as close to identical teams as possible.

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