Purpose of this blog

Dmitry Yudo aka Overlord, jack of all trades
David Lister aka Listy, Freelancer and Volunteer

Thursday, September 5, 2013

[WoT] More German TDs!

New German TDs, finally. Say "hi" to them. 

Tier 4 - Marder III or Marder 38T (from Marder II).  Gun: 7,5 cm PaK 40/3 L/46



Tier 5 - Pz.Sfl. IVc: Gun: 8,8 cm FlaK 41 L/74





Tier 6 - Nashorn. Gun: 8,8 cm PaK 43 L/71





Tier 7 - Sturer Emil or Pz.Sfl. V: Gun: 12,8 cm Kanone 40



Tier 8 - Rhm.-Borsig Waffenträger. Gun: 15 cm PaK L/29.5



Tier 9 - Waffenträger auf Pz. IV. Gun: 15 cm Pak L/38



Tier 10 – Waffentrager E-100. Gun: 15сm KwK44 L/38 with autoloader.





Courtesy of Storm

77 comments:

  1. Looks really nice!
    I've been wainting for this in a long time.

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  2. Very cool stuff here. Now if only you guys would dump Telia.net, I just might come back to the game. Having a constant ping of 90ms - 150ms to a server less than an hour down the road is just plain pathetic.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Have you contacted support with that? What did they say?

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    2. I haven't, because there's a ton of threads on the NA forums about Telia.net being the key culprit for East Coast players. I'm hesitant about contacting support anyways, since they've been telling people to re-install the game over and over rather than admitting the backbone to get to the WG servers is the issue. If you want, I can link the threads to you about high latency for East Coast players. I'm not sure when exactly it started, but it's been quite a long time (maybe a year now).

      I used to run BattlePing just to play WoT, and that would lower the ping by sometimes as much as 75%, so I know it's not on my end. I just don't feel like paying a subscription anymore for an outside tool to play WoT.

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    3. Here's a link to a poll on the forums from 2 months ago to ditch Telia. I know polls on forums can be skewed and what not, but this has to be pretty telling. ;)

      http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/254982-petition-for-wg-to-get-rid-of-telianet/

      Delete
    4. Well, yeah, that's pretty one-sided.

      Haven't been involved into that kind of infrastructure things, pretty sure, however, that not everything here depends on us when it comes to traffic and ISPs.

      Delete
    5. No I understand. It's a long standing problem though, that's affecting a large portion of the US East Coast playerbase. Here's the general thread on the latency issues, all showing telia.net servers as the culprit.

      http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/78731-reporting-lag-issues/page__st__900#top

      I thought WG contracted to them for their server support? I'm not too keen on the networking aspect of running a service. :)

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    6. I will forward it to the guys anyway. I'm interested myself.

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    7. Thanks Overlord, your help is greatly appreciated! FYI, I can't wait to try out this new TD line. I'm especially looking forward to the Nashorn, Emil, and Waffenträger auf Pz. IV.

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    8. I have passed the info. Will see what they say.

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    9. Overlord,
      No luck so far. Support is still saying that it's an issue with Time Warner, and casting the blame on players' ISPs. The last few hundred replies in the generic network issues thread have all pointed to Telia as the source of the dropped packets and yet, WG is still not looking at them as the issue.

      Here's the latest thread that WG support created for users with network packet loss:

      http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/280264-issues-with-lag-on-east-coast-on-time-warner-cableroadrunnerearthlink/

      I'm with Comcast as my provider, and I know it's not my ISP that is the issue.

      Thanks,
      Brandon

      Delete
  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  4. Been waiting a long time for the second German TD line, glad it is nearly here.

    Out of interest Overlord do you know if much consideration was given to having the Pz.Sfl. IVc have the sides down and a fully rotatable gun with slightly less armour? I assume the sides are up for balance reasons?

    Anyway aside from that the new TD line looks great.

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  5. E100 15cm gun :(
    Pen on that gun is very questionable, hope the td has very good armor for up close engagements. Otherwise it will have to load HE and pretend its a direct fire bat chat arty while sniping... which come to think of it could be a BLAST.. lol c what I did there :P

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  6. The Marder and Dicker Max are my favorite tanks in the game. So this has me pretty excited. :)

    East Coast ping is fine for me most of the time (~45), but there are days where it spikes up to 300-400 for no reason.

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  7. Are these going to be paper-skinned TD-s? Because it sure looks like. They will not be as good as the Panther, Ferdi or JT. If anyone detects them based on the pictures above they will be penetrated by even a Tier 6 and I am not talking about KV-1S derp gun. Sure the 15cm gun will be fun from Tier 8 yet I have many concerns about the armor and camo rating. On the other hand if they lost armor... they had to gain serious mobility boost.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. At least first four of them existed for real, i.e. they saw real combat and fired real shells.

      Delete
    2. - Then question mine would be - Will these be more (seriously more) agile and maneuverable on Tier 8 ad above than the current TDs (Ferdinand - J.panzer E100)?


      - Wiht your reply you answered partially my next questions/thoughts. I am afraid of blueprint-tanks - new TDs, tier 8 and above.

      At least for the first 4 I will be able to search for details (armor thickness/ top speed / rate of fire of the guns.. ect.) if something feels "suspiciously off", but the last 3 .. please no more of these blueprint-only tanks.

      Please put manufactured german tanks in to the game. At these blueprint-only tanks anyone cat set any setting to any level - I mean .. too much theories too less facts of their capabilities. We would need tanks with fix figures like - odd example - Tiger, TigerII, J.panther - of which we know what are they capable of, from ducuments/archives / movies.

      Will the geman tech tree ever see new high tier (tier 9 and above) tanks which were actually produced - like the Leopard (and its' prototype)? Because what we see are fictional tier 9-10 heavies, tier 10 TD and Arty. Is there a chance we (german tank drivers) will get any heavy, td or arty which was actually produced and not just existed on paper?

      Delete
    3. @Sandor

      The Dicker Max (Tier 6) is slow, open-topped, and can be penetrated by a PzIIC's machine gun. If arty and/or a scout finds it, it's dead. But the DMax is still awesome because it hugs cover like nothing else in the game. Peek up just over the crest of a hill, hit targets with your insane gun depression, and then back down the hill before they can respond.

      If you know how to use bushes properly, you can one-shot tanks without them ever seeing you. It's the ultimate sniper tank.

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    4. Hi Overlord,

      About: "At least first four of them existed for real, i.e. they saw real combat and fired real shells."

      Totally True. But I think those four could be a "mini"-tree: Marder III->Pz.Sfl. IVc->Nashorn->Sturer Emil (like the new A-43 ones). I could think, that we could make it just like this:
      MarderII->Marder III->Pz.Sfl. IVc->Nashorn->Sturer Emil->JPII I think this would make sense. As those four designs arent "classical" "Waffenträger designs" more normal Jagdpanzer (Tank Destroyers).

      http://s7.directupload.net/images/130906/8p498gd9.png

      As WAFFENTRÄGER, would I suggest a different line up:
      http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/292320-lets-share-new-german-tank-destroyers-will-be-rolling-out-soon-89/page__st__120__pid__5807543#entry5807543


      I think, with such an tech tree, a progression would be easier. Progression in the same meaning as in WoWP: That every string has a Theme and Role. For example: Assault Planes, Heavy Fighters etc.... And every plan is a progression from the design before. Meaning: You getting better by every step etc.... As Quickybaby mention about the new german line up from the VK3002M to the E-50, you have medium snipers and you feel a progression, where your vehicles getting better and better in the ROLE. And this ROLE doesnt jumps around, so that you havent greatly rework your playstyle by every step in the (theme-)line (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQLZ1F6-SQA&feature=c4-overview&list=UUQWHq9e1hN268yjgYq-0hNw).

      As for me. I thought, that theme-lines where the goal of WG in WoWP. And yes I love it :) So back to the topic. I really dont think those four real designs are really fitting in a Waffenträger line (as they havent any turret and wasnt mention or planned as Waffenträger etc....)

      So my suggestion:
      - Add those four TDs, as TDs in the current tree (see picture).
      - Add a new Waffenträger line, which has a commen theme (see picture).
      http://s7.directupload.net/images/130906/8p498gd9.png


      Your
      Staufen

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    5. Only that it doesn't have a gun with sniping accuracy... but I love it nevertheless, had it for a while and it's awesome. Highly underestimated by enemies, just like the ELC AMX.

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    6. drum loader with a size and camo ranting of e100 will be able to fire max 2 sheels before getting detected and blasted to hell through that paper armor

      Delete
    7. wasserman,

      that's clear. It's just that we prefer to do full trees.

      Delete
    8. Sandor Nagy,

      @Will the geman tech tree ever see new high tier (tier 9 and above) tanks which were actually produced - like the Leopard (and its' prototype)? Because what we see are fictional tier 9-10 heavies, tier 10 TD and Arty. Is there a chance we (german tank drivers) will get any heavy, td or arty which was actually produced and not just existed on paper?@

      Our choice within the given timeframe is very limited. Nothing I can come up with. At least from the plans for near future.

      Delete
    9. And yes, Sturmtiger and Brummbar are probably more important.

      Delete
    10. @Overlord

      "that's clear. It's just that we prefer to do full trees."

      Understandable. Just that I think, that those tier 8-10 are a lit out of the "theme"/role/playstyle/etc.... of the tree/line (as mention above). But the future will tell, aka 8.9 Testserver :)

      SORRY!!!! Off Topic now. Since you are here and can answer questions :) Im a light tank driver, thats why I have some questions about them :)
      - The Hanomag RU 251 Spähpanzer Kette, is there a chance that he may come this year?
      - The Leopard prot. B was also from Hanomag (Ruhrstahl, Rheinstahl-Henschel etc.. too); so is there a chance that we see the prototyp B after the Kette (which also could lead to the Leo1)?
      - Is there any chance the VK16.02 will see any buff in the near future?

      Your Staufen

      Delete
  8. I have heard in a Q&A that flamethrower tanks are planned for being added in World of Tanks. I also learned today that the first Maus design had square welding spots on the back (which are present in World of Tanks), each of which were apparently intended to mount flamethrowers mounted to subturrets. I have also heard that the large fuel tank, also currently absent in World of Tanks, was intended to hold 100 liters of fuel for said flamethrowers.

    Pretty please, can these flamethrowers become a researchable module for the Maus once flamethrower tanks are implemented? :)

    I think I can even imagine a way to balance them, too: Maus trades the ability to mount dual turreted flamethrowers for also having a gigantic, poorly armored fuel tank that can easily be penetrated and even catch fire?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Flamethrower tanks are just a crazy idea for now - there are no exact plans regarding the implementation.
      Noted your idea though :)

      Delete
  9. Overlord, does the Tier 8 Waffenträger TD will also have a 12,8 L/61 gun as an alternative? The 15 cm PaK L/29.5 will probably have a very bad penetration value (~220mm only).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The tanks just got modelled - don't know yet.

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    2. Actually, this is something we've been working on with Daigensui yesterday. In real life, L/29,5 had even worse penetration: there is no historical solid AP shot for the sFH18 and the HL shell (HEAT) is capable of penetrating cca 160mm (at any distance). There IS however ONE option: the Panzergranate 39TS (that existed and was actively used), basically an 88mm discharging sabot (!) for the 150mm gun. It penetrated roughly 130mm at 1000m at 30 degrees, that makes it cca 150mm at 90 degrees at 1000m, which in turn means that we're looking at cca 190-200mm pen at 100m (in WoT terms). From there, it can be tweaked: its muzzle velocity was 880 m/s, while the shell itself had steel core, that can withstand up to like 1000m/s (after that it shatters). If we went even further and - let's say - improved the tip with a tungsten tip (but that's not historical), we'll be looking at 230+ penetration. And now imagine firing this round from the L/38: instant 250+

      Then again, when it comes to shells, WOT is full of fiction: check out the 150mm SFH43 Panther gun: fictional HEAT shell with 240mm penetration (there is absolutely no reason why it should be so much).

      In other words: I wouldn't worry.

      Delete
  10. So, WFT E-100 trades armor, mobility, camo for the extremely reliable and cheap to run E-100's gun? The thing seems worse than the worst case scenario we imagined.
    No, thanks.

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    Replies
    1. As I said, to much unproved theory at theres tanks. These have existed only on paper and as it seems they are made of paper :D

      Delete
    2. So Sandor... you suggest that they instead remove all prototype tanks and non mass produced tanks ? Please enlighten the rest of the world which ones those secret mass produced well documented tanks they are whit holding from us.

      Just a quick look at what is commonly fairly accurate sum up of german tanks don't show many alternatives....
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_combat_vehicles_of_World_War_II
      And those who do clearly show, have most been confirmed that they are coming, like Mander III , Nashorn in next patch and assault guns later when they decided how to implend them.

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    3. Dont have any problem with Nashorn and tanks like that. I have the bad feeling about the blueprin-tanks like best example - E75.

      Whent it was introduced WG presented buch of apers presented how authentic it is. Now they nerfing the engine saying that it isnt authentic ... i know history can be changed... but this fast?

      This is the problem with blueprint-tanks they set it to a level when al other nation can beat the crap out of them with "any tank" and we can't say sh*t because we don't know the real abilities of those tanks... that is my only point nothing else.

      Delete
  11. I would much rather see a 128mm with an auto-loader, than this thing with an E-100 cannon at tier 9-10. Thats just me, I like the high rate of fire with moderate alpha and high DPM.

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  12. "Hi" worthless tier 10 TD, seriously, the L38 on a TD? The L38 works on the E-100 because the E-100 is frankly a big armored brick and it makes up for the weak pen with a high health pool and it's sheer weight. I... can't for the life of me think of any way you could make it work on a tier 10 TD with paper armor... unless it had a 6 round drum.....

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    Replies
    1. It has an autoloader they say. I'd bet on 4 shells and over 1 minute reload, but not too much... :)

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  13. Overlord I understand the guns for the Sturmtiger and the brummbar were very different than normal TDs but why are they not in and prototype fake stuff is. I am slowly losing interest with this game including the lack of actual correctness in vehicles from the war and slightly post.

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    Replies
    1. Their time is still to come. They both are very nice vehicles.

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    2. I agree..virtually the whole of the English TD line is made up of one off prototypes that never saw combat. Game is moving further and further into fantasy so might as well put lasers on and have done with it.

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  14. Will be interesting to see how theese new td's preforms, if it is like the Dicker Max with good gun, but lower mobility and weak armor it will require some skill to master them.

    I sort of hope they are diffrent, as some of the caracteristics of other tanks has been smoothed down gradualy after serveral balancing rounds. Now after the accuracy change, the russian guns are as accurate as the germans, it's not fun when some russian heavy with .4x accuracy gun snapshot you on the move and hit your weakspots. It seems to me the need for skill has been lowered, though reducing the fun for me as a slightly above average player. (27k games and 55% win ratio)

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  15. So Overlord, what steps are being taken to avoid the Marder II situation reoccurring? Especially with the Marder III?

    I still think the Marder III Ausf M looks better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What is the "Marder II situation" exactly?

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    2. Well you may remember way back, when the Marder II was a brilliant little vehicle to drive. It was the pure form of the TD, a BFG and no armour.

      It had only one defence to lurk in cover and make everything dead before it got close.
      Then it got nerfed. Over several patches it kept getting hit with the Nerf bat until most of the Marder II drivers gave up in disgust (Ironically it coincided with the Hetzer 105mm HEAT issue arriving, so guess where most player moved their crews to).
      It got to the point you couldn't hit an enemy until they where close enough to spot it.
      In many respects it was like the FCM-PAK 40, only without the painfully slow chassis.

      Delete
    3. David Lister,

      guys are just starting to tune those tanks (just got the models from Art), so it's kind of difficult to say for now how exactly they will be balanced.

      Delete
    4. No worries I was just curious.

      Still would have preferred the Ausf M...It looks more sporty!
      Maybe as a Premium?

      I'm still looking forward to loading HE into that 150mm Autoloader. It'll be like am sore sudden and horrific KV-2.

      Delete
  16. Overall, I am... satisfied, let's say. The tier 10 is obviously made up, but the rest are fine. The tier 9 hull is a truly curious choice though, another Mitteler Waffenträger (Krupp) would serve better, but I do understand the logic behind this.

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  17. Hi Overlord,

    sorry but this is outrageous, an aberration, a blasphemy as it is the open top tier 10 soviet td in game. Imagine one of those vehicles, with crew, firing that gun, in spaces of 1x1 sq km or even 2x2 sq km.

    It's unthinkable and I can’t understand the need of WG to constantly put new vehicles in game and not resolving the problems that are there for all to see or bring new game modes or correct balance to tanks.

    P.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. S.: Captcha still sucks.

      Delete
    2. Content production really has nothing to with the issues you are talking about. Btw, what are they?

      Delete
    3. Open top, no protection. They are like arties, yet they will have (do have) thick armour. They are arties, not td. Implement machine guns on tanks and we can kill all the crew on a glance. If i can cope with it at tier 4 and below it's an aberration above tier 8. You have arties with more cover than these td's. Something doesnt make sense here.

      P.S.: Yep, captcha is still here and still sucks.

      Delete
    4. Oh, thats terrible that Germans made so many open top vehicles (and planned many more in last years of war)...

      I do not understand why people so long think that graphic artists, who are making new tanks, will suddenly become IT specs able to resolve some problems of software nature.

      It is even more funny that such whining appears when WG introduce one of the most awaited lines.

      Captcha is not a problem for me. And due to growing amount of spam in the internet you should get used to captcha.

      New line is fine for me. If it appeared one year earlier I would surely grind it at least to tier 7 (8 also looks very interesting). Sad that you introduce it after I get bored with WoT (but rather with random teammates then with the game itself).

      Delete
    5. Germans made open top tds on paper, but produced the closed tds for the real thing. Wonder why???

      WG is a game company, I don’t care if the problem is in IT department, graphical department or cleaning department.

      Never did, never will whine because this was and still is a game where you can get to end game content without paying a dime. I have several tier IX and X and even a premium tank and never spent a cent on this game. As to the lines... to hell with it, long ago I decided that would never move from the lines that I had pre china patch, and in German, Soviet, American, and French lines I only develop one line from each type of vehicle.

      If you only can post in blog if identified, at least by an e-mail account, captcha why? If you tell me that, to post here, captcha is mandatory and there is nothing that can be done I promise I will never bring that around.

      Since you are a "line-eater" good for you and the likes of you.

      In one thing we agree with each other: after 20k games this game is getting boring. S.S.D.D.

      Delete
    6. Can live with this:

      http://www.michtoy.com/michtoy2010/products/Picture_Trumpeter_Models_TMP_5550.jpg

      Mobility is possible.

      But this:

      http://www.wonderlandmodels.com/media/managed/large/05523.jpg

      Delete
  18. If the Waffenträger E-100 really gets an Autoloader, players will CRY all day long till it gets nerfed with 9.0! Trust me

    I don't know what to say about this treeline, I waited 2 years for this, now I am seeing this and I don't feel happy that I waited so long and finally I see new tanks to take shape but there is no ''YEAHHHH'' in me ;)

    I say german tanks get worse and worse and more obscolete from patch to patch. All other nations have tanks easier to handle!

    By the way: I have ALL german none-premium TDs in my garrage on Elite!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Overlord,

    I know my questions usually consist of 2 parts 1 question and the complain about a certain change. Not now.

    My last question on this topic would be:
    - Are these TDs will be significantly faster (top speed) and seriously more agile [due to the armor-weight loss] than the original tree?

    Many thanks in advance for the answer!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Generally, they will be faster and more agile. To what degree - that's up to the balancing guys, and it's not decided yet.

      Delete
    2. Many thanks for the clear and honest reply!

      Delete
  20. even when it doesn't fit in here just to know ure point of view Overlord

    how to improve MATCHMAKING

    option1: ONLY SAME TIER into 1 BATTLE no more tier 6 in tier 8 , all same (exeption scouts)
    what YOU have to do:
    arty can do 80% of avrg HP among its tier (example tier8: avrg HP of tier8 is about 1000 means arty gonna do 700-800 damage not less not more.
    problem -->medals for shooting 2 tiers higher (nichol's medal, etc.) ...has to be deleted
    solution---> everyone who got this medal get Gold for his medal for adequate compensation
    problem---> games last longer because of more HP is in the game
    solution---> more teamplay (focus fire) =)

    arty has to punish(not necessarily kill) campers (rock-paper-scissors-concept)

    option2: PLAYERLEVEL
    normal playes who fought over 10k battles are more experienced than those who got 1k or less.
    so why not make a cut at 3k and10k (for example).
    players with 3k and less in 1 battle
    30001-9999 in 1 battle
    10k and more in 1 battle
    problem--->longer waiting time in queue
    solution--->after 1 min (or more, best let player choose how much he is willing to wait for a suitable battle) in queue you get into normal( like it is now ) MM

    u can do both or better let players decide (by poll). or do what is easyier for you to programm or has less efect on waiting time.
    BEST would be already in 8.9, but really It's urgent!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Option 1 would cause MASSIVE increases in waiting time, and also ruins the fun of the game. Option 2 would not work due to platooning mechanics and the fact that skill does not necessarily change that much over time. Also, bad players would have to wait several thousand battles to get better.

      Absolutely horrible ideas; get out. No offense.

      Delete
  21. 2 more question for you Overlord,

    What can be done again light tanks who intentionally crush in to heavies? - making them pay for light's repair cost and by this decreasing the credit income on heavies?


    Is there going to be an ingame penalty fo suicide scouts in the near future?
    - increase repair cost (5-10 times) after the suicide battle or
    - cd on that tank for 2-4 hours

    ReplyDelete
  22. I played more then 10k battles in WoT and I have never seen light tank intentionally crushing at heavy. And such light tank will not get enough credits to finance its repair.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. then you mush have drove medium tanks since, there are light tanks intentionally crushin in to heavies that is an existing problem. they dont care - cuise mod and only forward, curing in to heavies and by that taking their money - since it counts as team damage.

      Delete
    2. Light tanks do not get that money. Second part of collision gets only small percent of credits paid by you. Any light tank ramming at heavy will lose money in most situations if not in all (often he will pay more for damage done to heavy then he will get for his own damage). It is much more profitable to just play then ramm allies.

      I have never seen that and never seen any chat quarrel caused by such behaviour.

      If such ramming happens it is not intentional, but just careless.

      For me not a problem at all. This game has many more serious problems :).

      Delete
  23. good for you then. but is a promblem for many other players!

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  24. Incidentally, are there any positions opened in the QA department? If not, there should be. I have a feeling you guys need a strong head from North America, and I need a job, just saying.

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  25. Overlord,

    Just a little question: why not implement more game modes (something like historical battles), improve graphics performance and fix the MM before add more, more and more tanks?

    WoT was, for me, an amazing game. Now, forgive my raw observation, its just a pile of prototypes, "historically" designed, without any improvement over previous patches. Maybe cause the port for 360, but the game becames too arcadish lately. For me, a bit arcadish is good, only if sim still there.

    Why not put some effort in fix the current game, improve performance (the games stuter in a powerful rig), balance some things, adjust others and... voilá, we will have a big game again.

    Just a comment from a very long term player.

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  26. What is the reason behind creating more German branches? Who will invest its time and money on them while German tanks are constant targets of nerfing? (see 8.8 "reballance", Marder "reballance", Pz.IV "reballance", Tiger II and Löve size increase, explosive front transmissions, low pen guns on T10 heavies, etc.) How is it good for WG to waste German-tank players effort, and make them annoyed with every single patch? I really do not understand how is it good for anybody, inculding WG? Please explain it to me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's a good question. Go talk to arty players, they'll tell you. OH WAIT!! I was one... It's a consolation prize.

      Delete
    2. Arty nerf was at least a symmetric one - all nations suffered the same treatment. I understand your point, although I think, WoT became better because of arty nerf. But I am an arty hater anyway...

      Delete
  27. Any idea as to what will happen to the Ferdinand at Tier 8?

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  28. Waffentrager E-100 reminds me of the TD from C&C RA2 lol.coincidence?

    ReplyDelete
  29. The tier 10 is obviously made up, but the rest are fine. The tier 9 hull is a truly curious choice though, another Mitteler Waffenträger (Krupp) would serve better, but I do understand the logic behind this. Thanks for sharing.
    Makeover Games

    ReplyDelete