Purpose of this blog

Dmitry Yudo aka Overlord, jack of all trades
David Lister aka Listy, Freelancer and Volunteer

Friday, October 12, 2012

[WoT] What It Brings Us Is...

133 comments:

  1. The first thing came into my mind was: Armor thickness isn't important anymore.. Sorry to say that..but its like this :/ Since T10 tds and their guns nearly every armor t8+ is getting useless...There are way too much 800+dmg Tanks in this game which are really destroying the "old" feeling of World of Tanks...

    Sometimes you said "I just Blame the gold ammo he used!" But now? Everyone with (atleast) 1 premium tank will buy Gold ammo... and with gold ammo you get higher penetration.. like obj.268(?) with 303mm(?) Penetration... So games are getting really frustrating..you see, atleast,3 enemy Tanks which are dealing 800+dmg on the enemy side. You thought.."I will just show my turret..I bet they bounce.." But now, where everyone has the possibilty to get 280mm+ Penetration..why hide? Why angle? The shell will penetrate...so teams are getting even worse (as if they would been worse enough..)

    Only naming 1 bad point of
    "Gold ammo 4 everyone!!11!1"

    Better question is: When is the IQ test comming? Lets say for guys who got their t8 tank? Would be way more interesting ;)

    Or whats the secret you are trying to hide from us until supertestserver? :P

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    1. There are a number of options to increase the umportance of armour along side the named change. An experiment is needed to assess possible outcome and the exact condition of it being carried out at all. Its not just we change one component and leave the rest of the system untouched. Stay cool! Its a complicated issue that relates to both battle and economy balance and we are careful.

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    2. Let me get this straight:

      1) You announce one half of an updated feature.
      2) You don't explain the half you announced.
      3) You don't explain the half you left out.

      And now, you want people to be calm because you have everything under control? Maybe if you looked at how painfully inadequate your handling of this topic is you'd understand why people are freaking out.

      Unfortunately, this is merely the latest in a long line of poorly handled game update PR. WG is rarely transparent about the intention of game changes. So start there. Get everyone on your side first by communicating what you're trying to do. THEN release how you're going to do it. And when you do, for the love of God, release ALL the changes even if they're in beta.

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    3. You're already experimenting with the physics and normalization which both might require rebalancing of certain vehicles. While at a glance I think I'm in support of gold rounds for credits (or removal of gold rounds), it might be too soon to introduce this change.

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    4. Inane_Dork They haven't officially announced anything, the SEA server put up patch notes for 8.1, probably by accident as it has already been removed now, and that is all.

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    5. angrybanana, if this was the first time they goofed up like this, I wouldn't rant. It would merely be unfortunate. Instead, it's part of a pattern of exceptionally poor PR.

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    6. It's a public test server, we don't use it for PR. Testing and experimenting precedes any release to main server. It's premature to worry about it right now.

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    7. Anything a company releases as information is PR. Your company happens to be consistently poor about releasing information about updates. Whether the change is on the test server or not is irrelevant to whether the information was released in a sensible way.

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    8. That's preliminary information since the update IS not hitting main servers at this stage. It's an experiment to be taken.

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    9. SerB has stated its actually going live, then on live if it proves to be bad it might be reversed. Well that might just prove to be too late to repair the damage considering the games just on the horizon.

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  2. Hey Overlord Wanna Check This Pict?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/16118167@N04/7286849144/

    It's M7 Priest With 9.75inch or 240 mm mortar
    sure it will be good as Premium Arty

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  3. If you can purchase gold ammo with credits, I'll be repurchasing the Patton 1. I had way more fun with that, and now if I can get 250+ pen out of silver ammo (occasionally), I'll have all I need.

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  4. One of the worst ways to have taken the game. Update 8.0 *finally* made armor more relevant, and I prefer it that way. Update 8.1 will make armor less relevant than even 7.5, so why even bother having it? It won't be utterly useless, but it will be even less reliable than it ever was.

    Weak points, random penetration rolls, variable distance, random accuracy rolls, unknowable armor groupings, unknowable spaced armor, module hitboxes, module hitpoints, shell pen dropoff and collision angle all play factor in whether a shell does actual damage. At least you could count on almost everyone in pubs using AP, but not anymore. Add that to the pile of variables. Is there anyone who things that fun? Anyone? It's not fun for me either giving or taking damage to have so many variables out of my control.

    What WG should have done, IMO, is made gold shells have the same characteristics as regular shells (AP or APCR) but generate 4x the credits for the damage. That way, they encourage people to play the tanks they like, they encourage tier spread, they encourage gold purchasing and they eliminate the main way to pay to win.

    But instead, we'll just get a bunch of trolling jackasses in M4's, T82's, KV-2's, etc. I don't see how anyone could seriously come to the conclusion that this change will benefit the game. What is the official rationale? I doubt I'll agree with it, but I'd like to hear it all the same.

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    1. +1 on this - what is the rationale for it? Why do it?

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    2. Such credit multiplayer is not only exploitable but also illogical.

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    3. I have no idea what you're talking about. What is "credit multiplayer"?

      Besides that, you stated that you want to discuss the change. But instead of discussing, you're dismissing. If my suggestion is exploitable and illogical, please explain why.

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    4. I like the idea with the credit multiplier for gold ammo instead of more pen or more damage, doesn´t need to be 4 times can be lower

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    5. The multiplier used is definitely up for discussion. I hope no one throws out my entire idea simply because they don't like the example number I used.

      I should note that, in this scheme, gold rounds should *NOT* be purchasable with credits. That would be indeed be exploitable and illogical.

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    6. The exact figure is irrelevant. That's an easy way to farm, thus is poses high risk to potential exploits. Don't take it personal.

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    7. All the tier 8 premium tanks are credit farmers. So farming itself is not the problem. Is there some reason to limit the farming to certain tanks or tiers? I would expect it preferable to spread that out instead of bunch it up at tier 8.

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    8. Poses high risks for exploits having 4x credit multiplier ? well whats the Chinese Gold Type 59 then ?... its 4 times credit mutliplier.

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  5. this is by far the worst idea EVER! the noobs will sing "shalalalalalalalalalalala". in the posts above mine everything is said. i love the game but after that i dont know. prem ammo is the reason why i dont play clanwars. i dint understand why a proplayer use gold ammo at all... please DONT KILL THE GAME with such USELESS IDEAS OR TESTS.
    best regards
    klasuskloetzl

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    Replies
    1. nah... noobs will just drown in ammo bills. Think and use math. Only thing that needs a workover are prem tanks. Esp 59. Wg knows the average income.. so they can do this eco balancing in notime I guess...

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    2. Exactly. Plus there are other options if we do decide to cap prem ammo usage.

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    3. Er. no they wont drown in ammo bills. All clever people will load 5-10 "premium shells" for the times when they meet a maus/T95/E100, Hull down american tank... ya know those times when you really need it ? the other times you'll just use normal AP ammo.

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  6. Can't say I dislike what's to come (that said, I have a premium tank but run a normal account, so my credit worries are milder than those of someone without either). Running the math in my head, I think I won't have much financial trouble using plenty of gold ammo and changing when meds appear. Ammo changing will also become a lot more important (changing AP-HE is something I rarely do, especially now that I play high-tier and nothing is in the field of red penetration).

    Reading other posts, I understand the argument that armor thickness is going to go down in value. There are still some vehicles on the extreme end that I think will be able to use sloping to some benefit, and if gold becomes the new standard penetration value I'm convinced you guys will rebalance based on that. If anything, this puts everyone at an even playing field. It will also make the grind longer, unless one has the skill/restraint to not touch the expensive shells. Hopefully this isn't made impossible by the potential future armor buff.

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    1. Also I don't think the fears about armies of low-tiers and mediums becoming equal to heavies are founded. High RoF = high expenditure. Meeting a medium willing to pop 6-7 credit-purchased gold rounds against my heavy would be, I guess, far rarer than meeting one with equipment upgrades. As many have said, it's just not viable to use only gold ammo if you're grinding (feels like it will run you in the negative even if you are playing just for fun), so I don't see where the "heavies/T95 will become useless" scare is coming from. Armor WILL become less important as people are able to adapt to that guy exploiting his ridiculous front, but the update won't grant everyone magic guns that teleport the shells directly inside the enemy structure. The only tanks that will get a constant, reliable benefit will be those using HE (all artillery forced into choosing to be either less effective or even less profitable than now?).

      Really, all this gives us is an option. I enjoy my premium heavy so I'll be using most of the profit from him to just buy him gold ammo and have fun (probably only way to maintain high gold ammo needs would be if those needs are on a prem heavy tier 8), but even then I wonder if I'll really need to do it - he already has high penetration against everything. Thinking about this more thoroughly, I think all this will lead to is everyone replacing the emergency 3-4 HE shells that they bring for potential high-armor targets with 3-4 gold shells (with the story being a bit different for howitzers).

      All this leads to is the only in-battle pay to win method disappearing by becoming available to all. And the HE thing. That's where the interesting bit hides.

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    2. You shouldn't be able to beat any tank with any strategy. The goal with every tank is to force the enemy to accept its favored rules of engagement. The enemy is trying to do the same but in reverse.

      If you lessen the effectiveness of the T95's armor - the armor that it pays for DEARLY with decreased mobility - you give it no favorable rules of engagement. No one would play the thing. Why would anyone bother with a tank that never has the advantage?

      I don't know if you've ever played a T95, but I can tell you that the majority of situations it gets in are bad for it. My favorite is getting one-shotted by arty on my way to the nearest shelter at the beginning of the game. If T95 drivers have to put up with that crap, everyone else has to put up with stupidly thick front armor.

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    3. There are enough players who can and do shoot mostly gold ammo in randoms. Based on what we see it doesn't make extreme difference for them, though effectiveness naturally goes somewhat up.

      Practice shows that one doesn't need 100% gold ammo in each battle, it's an obvious surplus. Usually 15-25% is quite enough.

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    4. that sounds interesting, Overlord. We don´t have the numbers you have, can you tell us how many players use gold ammo regularly in randoms?

      I know some guys that have 2-3 shots of gold ammo in the high tier tanks just to be able to penetrate high armor targets. Thought that it was more or less uncommon.

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    5. Sorry, that's obviously not the info I can disclose.

      Yes, your example is far more commom (%-wise) than the one I give earlier.

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    6. Overlord: "Based on what we see it doesn't make extreme difference for them, though effectiveness naturally goes somewhat up."

      Maybe it's not going to change much for them, but it's fundamentally changing the game for those, who have to rely on their armor's thickness to win a battle.

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  7. Cool changes. Lets see what happens when everyone loses money due to constant use of gold ammo... or if they would ever be used at all.

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  8. I'll actually wait for 0.8.1 to go live
    but, gold ammo for everyone is bad, extremely bad; think of those gold HE rounds for hi tier arty

    if WG has every intention to destroy WoT, please continue

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    Replies
    1. Like we did it with (almost) every update in the past. One more try.

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  9. About a month ago:

    "[WoT] For Better Armour!
    It was decided that in 8.0 update the normalization value will be decreased to 4-5 degrees for all rounds.

    The change is supposed to raise the importance of armour in the game, leading to increase of "we-didn't-even-scratch-'em" shots.

    Aiming weakspots and not shooting blindly will become even more beneficial.

    Precise vehicle control and aiming FTW!"

    And now this slap on the face.

    Whatever rationale Wargaming devs might come up with, and whatever credit price tag the premium rounds will have, the mere fact of opening up the accessibility of prem rounds to credit will increase the supply of prem rounds in the game.

    It might be shrugged off as acceptable for those guns with low to mid dmg/pen range. But for those that do have high hard specs, esp. those high tier guns with 700+ dmg range and 350-400+ prem pen range, every single shot matter a lot.

    For those and indeed for most prem rounds, Pen is so high to the degree that suddenly increased vulnerable zone of target tank makes "precise aiming" a joke. i.e.) something that requires precise aiming for cupola or lower hull only requires ability to discern turret from hull with prem rounds.

    And the dmg... consider that if one assumes garanteed pen for every hit scored, then even "tanker" types such as T95 or Maus can't soak up the punishment for long.
    Even if 3-4 people decide to use just a single prem round on that road blocking T95 as casually as using a single consumable, that T95 is toast in mere seconds and the battle line breaks; esp. if it was damaged already by arties on the way to its blocking position.

    That kind of casual usage of gold round, even if used less than 10 times in a whole match, will result in skewed gameplay experience at lower tiers too.
    Please remember that lower tiers are meant to be profitable and also that some people runs lower tiers "just for fun"
    And then please compare hard stats of some guns, esp. 105mm howitzers ("derps") with armor and hp stats of tanks of contemporary tiers.
    If a 850 dmg round of a tier 10 TD eats "only" 1/3 of a heavy's HP, prem round of that gun overkills anything from tier 4 and seriously injures tier 5-6s.
    To make matters worse, that howitzer type "derp" guns are available from tier 2 and gets widespread at tier 5.
    Hypothetical matches such as a tier-4 match where one team's top tiers are wiped out in a few minutes by a single 105mm prem round each won't be an uncommon occurance.


    So the rants aside, what I would like wargaming to do is:
    1. Ditch the plan
    OR
    2. Limit the supply of prem rounds in pub matches close to current ratio by vastly (did I say outrageously?)increase the credit cost for prem rounds.
    Currently suggested exchange ratio of 400 credit per gold is too low. It must be sufficiently high that an average pub player would be indifferent between using credit and gold for purchasing prem rounds.
    In this way, CW participants who lack hard cash or prefer not to spend hard cash will be satisfied while prem round supply rate in pub matches would remain more or less the same as before.

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    1. Yes, I'd just bene saying how much 8.0 had brought the skill back into encounters, especially in randoms. This ammo change will completely destroy that.

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    2. Will see, I would refrain from making fast conclusions.

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  10. I see that many people forget that in top tiers shells will cost around 4000-4800 creds so premium ammo wont be so numerous, cause it will be impossible to have profit from the battle, when using only this ammo. People also forget that gold ammo do not give autopenetration. It still bounces and ricochets a lot, it makes 0 dmg hits, it misses.

    I think this is good move. Ammo for gold is biggest pay-2-win feature in this game. Chance to buy it for credits makes it a little less pay-2-win (although still credits are easier to get for people who bought gold).

    I think that there should be introduced limit for ammount of gold ammo in vehicle (for example 6 shells - it can be different in different tanks).

    And still I think that the best solution is removing gold ammo from the game or at least from randoms. It would be most fair for non-paying players (I am not one of them, I have 3 VIII tier premium tanks so no problems with credits) and WG is earning a lot of money on other things :)

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  11. I belive you will still be able to buy the premium for gold, so if you dont want to grind credits for the premium ammo you can buy them for gold as of today.
    Just consider how expensive the prem.ammo will be, lets say 12g=4800 credits, so 30 shells will coast you 144000 credits! So gold spamming will be very expensive in the long run. But it will give the none premium players the posibility to cary a few prem. shells for those heavies with god like armor.

    Q: Overlord, will this be done to the gold consumables also?

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    1. did you ever fired 30 shells with a top tier tank?
      if you actually did, you are not a good aimer
      most top tier tanks in random battles fire ~10 shells or even less

      and firing gold ammo with a top tier tank, other than SPGs and E-100 is kinda' redundant

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    2. zMe ul: No i rearly get to fire more then 10 shell in the e-100, but that wasn't the point. People whine about gold shell spamming, my point was to give an example of how expensive that would be.

      And another question is, if you buy prem.ammo for gold and spend them, will it be restocked with gold or credits ammo when auto-resuply is on, or will you get a choise in post battle?

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    3. zMe ul, yes I did, almost run out of ammo with IS! Rare but still, and with T-29 I fire 13-20 shots on average! Gold ammo for credits is to expensive for constant use in high tiers.

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    4. Consumables? Thinking of them as well.

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  12. This patch was supposed to be known as the patch when the British arrived. Not for the ammo change. :(

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. 2 good things are better than one. :)

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  13. I hope we who have bought gold ammo for gold will get refunds of them in gold.

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    1. lol - I've no idea what planet your logic comes from, please explain.

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    2. LOL , Now all the gold noobs will break the head on the wall :D

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  14. Replies
    1. How about remove APCR from the game and thats all ?

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    2. Why remove diversity. Diversity is good.

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    3. Sure diversity is good, but only if the different options have their own advantages. What you plan here is creating a two-class society, making AP the poor peoples ammunition

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    4. How is that?
      The "poor" just have to drive some extra rounds in their farm tanks and they get access to premium content just like before. I count tier 8-10 as premium content as you start loosing credits there. All were complaining about gold ammo only for "rich" players now the "poor" get access to it and still there are complains.

      Let´s just see how WG balances it.

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  15. This is both good and bad. It makes tanks with bad penetration usefull, like the russians 122mm in tier 9 battles, so they are not completely screwed over, and also the E-100 will regain some usefullness.

    However theres a backside. Noobs and generally terrible players, that own a premium tank, will be able to do decent with gold ammo, where they sucked with normal ammo. This makes skill less important. Also armor will be less important. With 350-400mm penetration, Maus won't bounce much.

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    1. Sounds like "noobs" are prem tank owners, while all pros have never ever purchased any gold. It's far from being true.

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    2. its pay-to-win you have to know ;) so only noobs buy premium content

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    3. As if any prem would guarantee you victory.

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    4. It's far from being P2W. I never use golden ammo in random battles, and never use gold consumables (ever). The point is that so called "noobs" when they get hit in a weakspot two or three times in a row start crying about "premium ammo". This is by all means not true, it's just 12k battles i've spent in this game that got me to both: maxxed out crew tc. to maximize my aiming and loading time, and pure knowledge how and where to shoot.

      If some people can't deal with it, and DO NOT understand that most tanks have weakspots ... well, just watch Your replays 2-3 times and look where You got hit, memorise that point, and use it in-game.

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  16. Introducing premium ammo for credits seems interesting... but balancing the price would be IMPERATIVE :)

    i don't think it would be a game changer... though it would introduce new tactical and economic choices/dynamics to different vehicles and gameplay that could be interesting.

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    1. Definitely should not be a crucial game changer, and yes - balancing will be the key.

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  17. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fforum.worldoftanks-sea.com%2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F5483-world-of-tanks-81-patch-notes%2F

    ^best link for 8.1 change logs

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  18. Make the amount of gold shells each tank can carry limited between 5%-15% and its all good

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    1. Name only ONE guy who would ruin his income with a full ammo rack of prem shells... Noone with brain will put more than 20% into his tank. Even a tier 3 prem can go bankrupt in no time if it'S using prem ammo only. WG's idea is good on this one. The high price balances it well.

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  19. I don't like this change since the amount of Gold shells might increase significantly. You should make them a little bit more expensive, like 600 Credits = 1 Gold.

    Furthermore, some Premium tanks like the Type 59 or Superpershing will become totally OP when used with (only) Gold shells. Thus, you should make these shells much more expensive for Premium tanks, in order to prevent that a Superpershing is self-financing, even if using ONLY gold shells.

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  20. OMG, overlord linked my thread, I feel honoured :D

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  21. you get 400 credits pr gold on a straight conversion... Credits are NOT important enough in the current game to warrant this conversion rate!

    I do like being capable of buying all ammunition with credits.
    This might even encourage people converting gold at the retarded prices that currently keeps most of us away and trick them into doing it in other circumstances too.

    However at the same time it is VERY important to make sure gold ammunition doesn't break the game play. And tbh the insane penetration values does take away lot of the game play for most tanks.

    I think if WG could balance the current gold ammunition they could potentially boost their retardedly expensive gold/credit conversions by putting the shells out as super expensive shells purchased with credits. Some people will empty their credit bank and suddenly need to convert gold to repair their tanks and continue...

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  22. Kinda dissapointed on you Overlord.

    You didnt bring my topic that was first and contains the most info about it...

    http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/162562-081-info-changelog-and-screenshots-for-081/

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    1. Sorry, just took the first ones I noticed.

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  23. It's a step in the right direction, making the game less pay2win. But still i think gold ammo should be completely removed as it fucks all balance. Better players / players with premium(tanks) / with more time to grind credits will just have an unfair advantage. And of course well armored tanks will become even more useless (they already suffer from size, mobility and usually worse guns) Best solution would possibly be changing the Values of gold ammo, giving it a disadvantage, maybe longer reload, worse accuracy or damage

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  24. OMG Overlord, pls no premium ammo for credits...It will ruin the game...

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    1. Well, buy prem shells for tier 1? 400cr each... fire 20... 8k cr.
      Werth it? I think u got my point. I will lead to many ppl HAVING prem shells... but using them... I wouldn'T waste them. Ppl who are dumb enuff to do will be bankrupt anyway. Even with prem acc u cannot affort prem shells easily. Even the best players couldn't. It won't ruin anything but the income of ppl who waste their prem ammo.

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  25. In presented form idea is bad, premium ammo should be more expensive, let's say two times or even three times. With costs about 8k-15k for a piece everyone would think twice before spams battlefield. Additionally some tanks will bacame more OP than today i.e. (yes!) T-50-2 - I checked it on test server with gold ammo and it's owns everything (still not enough nerfs).
    I bring another idea - premium ammo for xp, xp earned by elite crew on elite tank, instead grinding perk you can grind gold ammo, for 4000 xp points each shell :) Premium ammo still will be rare and still everyone could afford it.

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  26. The idea is great.. only there has to be further balancing for prem tanks and a bit average income/shell output comparision. Prem shells must be rly expensive, so ppl only will choose them in hot situations.
    But the idea itself is good. Esp to break the "Oay to win" "gold ammo noob" blabla of the ppl. I'm looking forward to have a few prem shells on every tank... will save my ass in some situations for sure.

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  27. So you want to make players equal by allowing everyone to buy gold ammo, increasing their sales and unbalancing the games even more than it does now? So, after 8.1, of what use will slow, armored tanks be? And take a shitty guess which nation has the majority of such type tanks - yes, that's correct, Germans. Russia will still continue to suck the shells as always, no matter what you fire at it.

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    1. Economy will balance everything. If it doesn't we will help it.

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    2. Hopefully. I still think the silver price is too cheap. A run or two in a tier 8 premium tank can easily fund you an entire match derping around with full gold ammo setup in tanks like VK28, Hetzer, M4 Sherman, KV-2 and other with howitzers. Besides, having 3-5 gold ammo shells in your pocket will not be anything rare anymore, and these will in majority of cases be used in slow, armored targets. And fixing the economy won't help, as many will stock up on gold ammo right after the patch hits live.

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  28. Don't listen to this crying babies overlord! WG made great decision. Just adjust the gold-to-credits conversion ratio to 600-800 (400 is way to small) and remove completely normalization from all types of premium ammo (standart type stays untouched) - everything will be fine.

    Sorry for mistakes, eng isn't my native lang.

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    1. Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't charge more.

      I like the idea, just think it should be a bit more so that there is still an incentive to use gold.

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  29. I don't know! I don't think it will make much of a difference, I tend to see a lot of blue tracers around, so there are a lot of players using gold ammo! Gold ammo still bounces if you know how to angle, it still misses, especially with the russian guns!

    I see players carrying a few gold shells, just in case, much like the HE ones now! I mean, I don't see many players grinding credits for 2 days just for a couple of games using gold ammo in high tiers! T-29 alone has 63 shells, that's 302400 credits worth of shells! There will be more common in low tiers 2-5.

    I have premium and I want to buy a tier 8 premium tank to, but I can assure you I wont spend my credits on gold shells, no way, just to expensive, I'll just load a couple to use in very, and I mean very tight moments! I much rather use the silver to buy tanks and extra equipment than having a big silver dump on gold ammo!

    There is one place were I'll use them, tier 2 battles. Steaming off from high tiers and ruining some newbie games is very fun! But on other tanks, not as main ammo.

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  30. THE BRITISH TANKS ARE ARRIVING !!!!! OMG
    I am gonna buy some new 20 slots in my garage .

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  31. As if we haven't had enough high-penetration guns in high tiers untill now... Tanks which are made from paper don't have to worry - they have other benefits. But those which had to rely (mostly only) on their armor will be screwed: Even if noone spams premium-shells, everybody will be able to carry some with him. => mouse on sight => switching ammo => penetration. Good armor will be meaningless - AGAIN. meh.

    Besides my bias (;)), I simply wonder why WG wants to do that. No gold = "loosing" money and on top of that balance it getting screwed.

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  32. "Gold" Ammo should always have been like that..

    now finally we can make historical loadouts

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  33. 50% AP , 30% HE , 20% APCR
    Ultimate load for tiers 4 to 8 .
    GLHF all .

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  34. "If you're havin' gold problems I feel bad for you son
    I got 99 problems but penetration aint one"

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    Replies
    1. Just think of it, guys! No more "we didn't even scratch them!, etc" ))))

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    2. ...but still 0 dmg, that's never get old ))))

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  35. I don't like it as i can't afford to buy and support 4 more tier 8 tanks
    let alone load Gold ammo to remain competative

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  36. I'm just going to repost my forum post here.


    Just limit the number of gold shells you can carry in your tank to 10% of the total ammo capacity of a tank. So you will only use it if you really need it.

    So IS-2 would be able to carry 3 gold rounds,
    E100 only 3.
    IS-7 3
    IS-4 3
    T-62A 5
    T110E5 4
    M48 6
    E50M 5
    Maus 7
    JTiger 4
    Tiger H 6

    etc.

    Also there could be a weekly cap on how many gold ammo you could use or buy, and cap would not stack if you dont use them up at the next week.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great Idea to limit the load of gold shells on each tank .

      But WG won't care about our opinion after all .
      They have their own ideas and philosophies .

      Delete
    2. After playing some battles with premium money for silver I have admit that is not bad idea, maybe some tweaking is needed (slightly higher prises to prevent premium tank players to use it to much) but it's okay - I'm switching to gold when I'm facing some hard nut like T10 TD's (which are mostly overpowered), premium ammo helps beat that OP barrier and make chances more equal.

      Delete
  37. Just to "recap"...

    WG: It was decided that in 8.0 update the normalization value will be decreased to 4-5 degrees for all rounds.
    The change is supposed to raise the importance of armour in the game, leading to increase of "we-didn't-even-scratch-'em" shots.
    Aiming weakspots and not shooting blindly will become even more beneficial.
    Precise vehicle control and aiming FTW!

    If I may, I shall quote Overlord: Just think of it, guys! No more "we didn't even scratch them!, etc"

    Very indecisive...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. With WG so stubborn in not nerfing some tanks premium ammo for everyone bring some equality on server - you know, top TDs always pens me so gold ammo doesn't help them much but for me it's an salvation especially when facing OP tanks as Object 263 or Foch.

      Delete
    2. Prems are a sacred cow and we are extremely careful when it comes to them. So nerfing is expected.

      Delete
  38. Not happy about it. 8.1 will nerf credit income as people buy "gold" ammo, and the rest of us get yelled at for dragging down the team DPS with our sad AP rounds.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I have played the Test Server and noticed that after a while gold rounds double their prices (in gold and credits)! Not sure if it is a bug or an actual feature. If this is true, gold "spammers" might at first enjoy this, but soon enough 12G per round will become 24G, then 48G, 96G, ... The same with credits, 4800 per rounds will become 9,600 per round, then 19,200, then 38,400.

    So my point is, Go ahead, buy gold and "waste them", soon enough you will need 1 month worth of credit grind to buy enough gold rounds for one round! :)

    ReplyDelete
  40. Overlord I've got a question - FV214b (HT T10) got same price as Conqueror (HT T9) - is this a bug or is this intended?
    And I've got another question - since that FV215b is in some aspect same as Conqueror (gun, armor, engine) only got turret in abck and got some minor balancing differences can we expect that one day WG will create something like E75M with armor and engine parmeters same as in E75 but with lowered and lenghtened hull and with E50M gun (yes, yes I know that FV is a real tank, my point is that there is no big difference in stats between HT T9 and HT T10)? Pretty please.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. I'm on the trip and haven't seen the version yet, but looks like a bug.

      2. Will see to it. Currently tiers 9-10 do look potentially weak.

      Delete
    2. @overlord

      I just made some awful visualisation of future E75M (photoshop lovers don't look at it!)

      http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k574/han_solo_79/WoT/E75M.png

      Turret and road wheels taken from E75M, hull and gun from E50M. In specification section armor parameters taken from E75, gun and damage from E50M.

      Delete
  41. I like this change, but quite honestly if you want to keep credit purchased apcr and heat rounds you're going to have to make a change to the damage output they deal. Realistically speaking an apcr round should not to more damage than a regular AP round. The logic I'm seeing behind this is pretty simple, if you want to get more pens you won't get as much damage per pens, if you're okay with taking a loss on penetration you should get more damage.

    If you want to make APCR and HEAT rounds more readily available they need to have their parameters readjusted so they aren't game breaking. My suggestion is to reduce the damage caused by APCR by 20-30%, then lower the average damage and pen of HEAT(keeping pen higher than AP) but make both their damage and pen swing wildly high and low

    ReplyDelete
  42. I have 200prem ammo in the depot, will you pay back my gold???
    If not it is very unfair! I payed for this with real money and now its free(credit) goods? I want back my money!

    ReplyDelete
  43. Overlord,

    did you already notice on the Test-Server 0.8.1 that the credit price for Premium shells on Premium tanks is quite low so far? Now, with a Premium Account + Premium Tank, you can use ONLY Gold shells in battles and STILL make profit!! Thus, some tanks might become OP, like the Superpershing or the Type 59, when driven with Gold shells only.

    The only solution would be to make the costs for Gold shells higher for Premium tanks. It's all about ingame economy to avoid this.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Yes. For Premium tanks Gold ammo should cost double silver.

    If it stays this way i will mostly play my Type59.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. For what? I'm only using Type when I want farm some credits to buy new tank, I could, hipotetically, farm silver on it to purchase gold ammo on my tank, but still I will use mostly other tanks. You want say us that you play this game only for owning, pwning and winning? Kids these days...

      Delete
  45. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

    It seems like a lot of people are just looking at penetration numbers without thinking about other mechanics.

    Like DSM said, gold ammo is still subject to the bouncing mechanics. And that's an important mechanic that have a little to do with penetration.

    The very advantages of gold ammo are when hitting non-angled surfaces and weak points. You're pretty sure you will get less no damage hits.

    I just think that if this changes take place, WG must closely watch for any flaws in the penetration values of gold for each guns, because with the changes of the matchmaking, addition of new tanks, this could become a bit tricky to balance, as difference of pen. between gold and regular is not normalized and is rather old for most tanks.

    It's gonna be a tough job making all types of gold rounds more like a significant little edge in combat rather than a flat out advantage. Lots of testing to do, WoT Armory style!

    ReplyDelete
  46. It's an astonishingly stupid idea. You can already see it on the test server - the premium ammo spam renders armour completely meaningless, so the top German tanks may as well pack up and go home since what armour they had (already under threat from the ridiculously high-pen laser guns on new French and American tanks) is now totally useless against anyone over tier 7, and given how serously underpowered German guns are against the other nations, their armour (huge dev-approved weakspots notwithstanding) was their ONLY selling point.

    The test server shows how this would affect the live game - premium-spamming auto-aiming idiots killing everything in seconds, turning the game into a mindless, zero-survivability arcade mess for people with a 2-second attention span. You'd just introduced armour normalisation, which was actually having a positive effect by making tactics and skill (both in angling and in shooting) count for something...now this insanity. Seriously, who WAS it that thought this was a good idea for gameplay?

    And all you had to do was limit premium ammo to Clan Wars only - bingo, happy playerbase! Now you've created this huge sh*tstorm and it won't go away. Spin it any way you want, this is a very stupid idea and it's going to alienate a hell of a lot of players. There was a lot of enthusiasm brewing for the British tanks, but that's already being overshadowed by this crazy proposition.

    Seriously. Keep premium ammo in Clan Wars, and make it buyable with silver there...and get rid of it anywhere else. Armour normalisation was working well, don't ruin it with this absolutely un-needed and un-asked-for stupdity.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. thx for these words ... i cant describe my feelings about this change any better.
      WG is pathetic as hell. this is a DOLLAR descision ONLY.

      Delete
    2. After several battles on test server I have to say that was a good idea, it gives a nice comfort in battles and at last we can beat that OP T10 TD's

      Delete
    3. these TD´S are not OP. and when i hear comfort i smell autoaim ... if they dont Re-balance this game after the change it will be ruined.

      Delete
    4. When i hear something is not OP i smell proud user happy that he is using legal cheat.
      They are OP especially Object 263 and Foch. You got three things: firepower - speed - armor, these two tanks got all three which makes it OP, gold ammo helps us beat armor to make equal chances.

      Delete
  47. overlord, dont you fear the posebility that people will start to do some troll platoons with gold ammo only with tanks like vk2801, kv2,.. the tanks wich can realy benefit a lot from this? or hell, eaven a GW_panter could be a god with gold ammo only if u have a good aim.

    ReplyDelete
  48. I understand what it is you are trying to do. People are not very willing to spend real money on consumable items like ammo, on the other hand a lot of people are quite willing to spend a large amount of money on premium tanks.
    So you are changing the game so that premium tanks give the same advantage that gold ammo were supposed to give for people who spend real money to gain an advantage and that way earn the money gold ammo were planned to give.

    But, is it really worth upsetting the entire game balance for this increase in revenue? To me it looks like you are hurting long term income for a short term revenue and in the process reduce the overall quality of your product.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Until january-february no more updates!We have work to do with new tanks! :D
    Gold ammo for credits its a double-edged sword,but who will have a loooot of silver will do well in game.but i guess cash revenue will slow down after victories and this will be the balance.
    and the main purpose will be premium tanks,who will make a looot of silver after this update.

    ReplyDelete
  50. excellent idea credits for gold shells. just continue whit idea, it levels the play field. no one can explain to me that is is bad for standard account player to be able to buy gold shells. and that it is much better if only you can buy them with cash. i mean please, can you be more childish.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Generally it's a good change. (Well it be better if they removed gold ammo completely but they need to make money somewhere)

    But there's a number of really opp rounds your going to have to nerf, eg kv2, and the insanely large explosion radius rounds on hight tier arty.

    Some of those rounds make cover useless as they just have hit nearby to wreck you tank.

    ReplyDelete
  52. good idea but please rise the exchange rate to 1:600 so people don't abuse this system

    ReplyDelete
  53. Good players hide weak spots, gold users see whole tank as a weakspot. Premium ammo is the cancer of this game and now you want to spread it.

    Already to afford playing top triers we need premium account and some premium tank which must be used since time to time. Now you wan't us to buy more gold or grind more with premiums...maybe it wouldn't be that bad...sure shot is earning shot but in this situation avarge players start to be equal to good players. It doesn't look like good "end-game" of mmo. What is the point of this? And what will be next? Other premium consumables will follow ammo? Wanna be generous than allow people to buying premium tanks for credits with this ratio.

    ReplyDelete
  54. 8.1 will feel like a Test Server where everybody is shooting gold..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And it sucks royally on the test server - for some reason, the devs seem determined to make it suck for everyone on the live server too.

      Delete
  55. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  56. How about just limiting the amount of prem. rounds a tank can carry to a fraction of its ammo capacity?

    I know historical accuracy doesnt matter that much when it comes to balance anymore but in WW2 most tanks also carried only a small amount of that costly rounds.

    just say´n

    ReplyDelete
  57. If the money is the problem, then just make premium more expensive and remove the gold ammo from the game. Pay to win sucks hard. I think you are playing with fire here. Remember, once you have overstepped this threshold where the majority of players are willing to accept certain elements of pay to win, it will become very hard for you to regain the trust of the players.

    imho I think this is a typical case of collecting pannys in front of a steamroller.

    ReplyDelete
  58. terrible design decision, instead of tackling the problem of gold ammo in randoms by removing it, they make it available to everyone for credits, thus making any armor obsolete and further making this game unplayable on certain tanks.


    good job, wargaming.



    ReplyDelete
  59. Instead of leaving premium ammo a zillion times better than standard ammo - it should be different. Variety is good as you say Overlord, but it's not variety when 1 choice is clearly superior.

    Make APCR have the same pen as the AP rounds. Loses more pen over distance but more effective vs. slope.

    Like Hesh ammo for the british tanks. Make people have to THINK about ammo type instead of just using gold to win.

    Credit cost still won't keep things in check and never will. Look how much economy nerfs has done to T8 arty. Still arty parties at T10 all day 'erry day.


    ReplyDelete